Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

philwareham · 2016-09-06 07:53:41

hcgtv wrote #301095:

I’m using the Hive Neutral admin theme, and all this discussion about screen readers and such, has me wondering why the Write panel has it’s menu on the right, and the Pages, Forms and Styles has the menu on the left.

It’s because, unlike the forms/pages/styles panes where you select the file to be worked on, if you are on write panel you have already chosen the doc you want to edit (or are writing a new one). Therefore workflow is that you write, then you select the options for that writing (whereas on pages/forms/styles workflow is to select the file, then write code). Hope that clarifies it.

Also, the default article links to the docs at the old wiki and the new .io site, a bit confusing.

Ah yes, good spot – that is just a 301 redirect in the textpattern.com site, which I’ll amend today.

etc · 2016-09-06 08:58:29

Bloke wrote #301099:

I’d definitely favour this in a release or two when we rethink categories.

But not this. It’s a bug report waiting to happen. “I hit Collapse all, the boxes all collapsed, then I started a new article and it opened again without me asking.”

Yeah, right. Then make it collapsible for saved articles only?

Bloke · 2016-09-06 09:12:56

etc wrote #301102:

Yeah, right. Then make it collapsible for saved articles only?

Might be slightly confusing, but if it’s doable and makes sense then it might be worth a shot. Guess we can easily swap out the panel for a collapsible one after first save (as it’s a non-AJAX event) and from then on it’ll behave like a twisty, with its open/closed state (re)stored from the last article.

The bigger question is where would we put the expand/collapse links? If we move them back above the Sort & display box, it’s confusing when that box doesn’t collapse. If we keep them below that box, then it may also affect the state of the box above the clicked link, which is not great. The only other avenue I can think of is to move the links on save: below the box for new articles, above it for saved ones, but from my (admittedly hazy) UX knowledge, I recall shuffling UI elements around like that is not a good idea for users.

If you can figure something out, by all means give it a whirl. Dunno. I’m happy for it to remain fixed and just shift the categories out one day.

phiw13 · 2016-09-06 09:13:18

etc wrote #301102:

Yeah, right. Then make it collapsible for saved articles only?

That would confusing, I think (subject came up in the previous thread).

philwareham · 2016-09-06 09:15:38

I agree with Philippe, please keep sort/display visible at all times. Categories can be moved to a collapsible if/when unlimited categories happens.

etc · 2016-09-06 10:08:33

philwareham wrote #301105:

I agree with Philippe, please keep sort/display visible at all times. Categories can be moved to a collapsible if/when unlimited categories happens.

Fine, less work! But the collapse/expand link after Sort and display looks strange (a bit lost). The visual difference between collapsible and visible is enough for me to keep it on the top without any confusion.

Bloke · 2016-09-06 10:30:10

etc wrote #301109:

the collapse/expand link after Sort and display looks strange (a bit lost).

Yeah, it’s not brilliant but the best I could come up with to satisfy the concerns. By all means revert my commit and put them back up top, or shove them somewhere more appropriate. It was just a test, as I can see how putting them up top could be confusing to newer users who aren’t as familiar with the Textpattern model as we are. And it was those users to which I believe Candyman was concerned about.

I suspect many users will miss “The visual difference between collapsible and visible”. To me, the addition of a little twisty triangle over on the far side is rather subtle. Unless the panel is delineated as special in some other, slightly more obvious, way (which brings its own issues wrt making it blend in with the surrounding visuals but also standing out somehow!) I suspect many more users will be surprised when the collapse/expand buttons “don’t work” on the first panel. Perhaps after a few clicks, the penny will drop and the difference between the panels will become obvious. Do we want that experience for users? I’m not sure ‘surprise’ is a desirable response when something is clicked in a UI :-)

philwareham · 2016-09-06 10:31:48

It’s fine as-is (underneath sort and display) for the sake of 4.6. We can revisit maybe in 4.7. Let’s prepare this thing for shipping now.

Bloke · 2016-09-06 10:33:19

philwareham wrote #301112:

It’s fine as-is (underneath sort and display) for the sake of 4.6. We can revisit maybe in 4.7. Let’s prepare this thing for shipping now.

Winner.

hcgtv · 2016-09-07 05:18:19

Bloke wrote #300965:

The new site repo is available and was updated just a few hours ago. By all means get involved.

Grunt :(

bici · 2016-09-07 06:17:40

i am working with v3 of the new 4.6.0 beta. Combined two of hcgtv’s TXP Themes and all seems fine. I found the UI fairly straightforward and didn’t come across any issues.

gaekwad · 2016-09-07 09:13:03

philwareham wrote #301112:

Let’s prepare this thing for shipping now.

Start your engines!

philwareham · 2016-09-07 09:18:32

gaekwad wrote #301139:

Start your engines!

Yep, nearly ready!!

maverick · 2016-09-07 11:41:58

Bloke wrote #301086:

Done. See if that’s any better.

This is much better so long as the “Sort & Display” remains un-expandable/un-collapsible.

candyman wrote #301078:

First thing I noticed (and that it seems strange to me) is the behavior of the Write panel: why the Sort and display panel is always fixed?

jakob wrote #301080:

To me this seems entirely logical: it’s the one thing that absolutely has to be filled out.

I’ve expressed my thought on this in the past, so forgive me for the repeating myself. I agree with Candyman. I do understand the reasoning for keeping it open, and it’s excellent reasoning. However, I still advocate for allowing it to be collapsible. In no particular order:

It creates a consistent interface
Having it open to ensure people have properly filled in the settings is only applicable for new articles. Granted is probably the primary use case for the write panel, but even so it is only one use case.
I advocate for Textpattern’s original mantra of “just write”. For me, that means, as much as possible, creating a distraction free UI for writing. Collapsing all, including sort & display moves even closer. (Personally, I’d like to try a versions with a slide out or modal or popup for all the extra settings.)
We should move away from requiring the Sort and Display. It makes sense if Textpattern were only a content publishing system, but it if is a content management system, we should allow the freedom to create articles that are outside of sections.
If we are going to require certain settings, it should be possible with the new js foundation a warning, or even pop up with the warning and the ability to fill in the settings in the pop up itself. Which makes some sense if the reasoning is these are special settings that should be treated differently from other settings.

edit

By the by – Please do not construe my comments to be in reference to something I believe needs to happen prior to a 4.6 release. It’s feedback going forward. And really at the heart of it is 1) is there a way to make status and sectional optional and 2) if they are unique and necessary, can we handle them differently than keeping them visible all the time? Maybe that means all preferences become a slide out, non-negotiable preferences a modal, or a warning – “you didn’t set this” pops up.. Just my preference among the various views :)

That input aside, excellent work all!

Last edited by maverick (2016-09-07 11:50:16)

Bloke · 2016-09-07 13:06:43

maverick wrote #301144:

we should allow the freedom to create articles that are outside of sections.

I’ve given this some thought in the past, but it breaks so many content paradigms baked into Txp (convention over configuration being one of them) that it’s a major upheaval for little measurable benefit. Content has to live somewhere.

Granted, it’d be nice to be able to have chunks of content that could benefit from Textile / markup but are not full articles in themselves. Like Forms, but available to content authors not just designers, that you could “include” when needed.

But would they be useful? Dunno. Proper custom fields will help, but they’re still attached to the article, which has to live somewhere to be displayed in a logical location to the site visitor. Custom content types would be better, imo.

If we are going to require certain settings…

I feel that since all articles must have a Section and a publication Status, those fields should ultimately be moved out of the side panel and put in the main flow. Then the side panel becomes entirely optional and could be hidden/popped out on demand as you mentioned, leaving more screen real estate for content.

When we make the blocks sortable (drag-drop), I’d like to visit that notion if possible.

Textpattern CMS support forum

#76 2016-09-06 07:53:41

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

hcgtv wrote #301095:

#77 2016-09-06 08:58:29

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

Bloke wrote #301099:

#78 2016-09-06 09:12:56

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

etc wrote #301102:

#79 2016-09-06 09:13:18

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

etc wrote #301102:

#80 2016-09-06 09:15:38

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

#81 2016-09-06 10:08:33

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

philwareham wrote #301105:

#82 2016-09-06 10:30:10

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

etc wrote #301109:

#83 2016-09-06 10:31:48

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

#84 2016-09-06 10:33:19

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

philwareham wrote #301112:

#85 2016-09-07 05:18:19

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

Bloke wrote #300965:

#86 2016-09-07 06:17:40

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

#87 2016-09-07 09:13:03

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

philwareham wrote #301112:

#88 2016-09-07 09:18:32

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

gaekwad wrote #301139:

#89 2016-09-07 11:41:58

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

Bloke wrote #301086:

candyman wrote #301078:

jakob wrote #301080:

#90 2016-09-07 13:06:43

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

maverick wrote #301144:

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