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#73 2016-09-06 07:38:58

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 4,662
Website GitHub

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

jakob wrote #301080:

To me this seems entirely logical: it’s (Sort and display — etc) the one thing that absolutely has to be filled out. If it were not visible, people would post all over the shop without even noticing.

Categories are optional, so we could put them in a separate collapsible panel. Especially if they get unlimited some day.

I suppose a valid argument might be that an already set article won’t change afterwards, but to make this workable one would really have to store the display prefs per user (as is current) and per article.

We could (imo) make Sort and display collapsible without storing its state, so it would be reopened on each new visit.

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#74 2016-09-06 07:48:50

philwareham
Core designer
From: Haslemere, Surrey, UK
Registered: 2009-06-11
Posts: 3,553
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Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

Any amends to sort and display pane will have to wait until 4.7 now. I am OK with moving categories out of there if something logical houses them. The rest of the sort and display I’d rather leave as uncollapsible really to be honest, as those options within are essential to the CMS functionality (apart from categories).

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#75 2016-09-06 07:48:53

Bloke
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From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 10,742
Website GitHub

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

etc wrote #301096:

Categories are optional, so we could put them in a separate collapsible panel. Especially if they get unlimited some day.

I’d definitely favour this in a release or two when we rethink categories.

We could (imo) make Sort and display collapsible without storing its state, so it would be reopened on each new visit.

But not this. It’s a bug report waiting to happen. “I hit Collapse all, the boxes all collapsed, then I started a new article and it opened again without me asking.”


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#76 2016-09-06 07:53:41

philwareham
Core designer
From: Haslemere, Surrey, UK
Registered: 2009-06-11
Posts: 3,553
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Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

hcgtv wrote #301095:

I’m using the Hive Neutral admin theme, and all this discussion about screen readers and such, has me wondering why the Write panel has it’s menu on the right, and the Pages, Forms and Styles has the menu on the left.

It’s because, unlike the forms/pages/styles panes where you select the file to be worked on, if you are on write panel you have already chosen the doc you want to edit (or are writing a new one). Therefore workflow is that you write, then you select the options for that writing (whereas on pages/forms/styles workflow is to select the file, then write code). Hope that clarifies it.

Also, the default article links to the docs at the old wiki and the new .io site, a bit confusing.

Ah yes, good spot – that is just a 301 redirect in the textpattern.com site, which I’ll amend today.

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#77 2016-09-06 08:58:29

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 4,662
Website GitHub

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

Bloke wrote #301099:

I’d definitely favour this in a release or two when we rethink categories.

But not this. It’s a bug report waiting to happen. “I hit Collapse all, the boxes all collapsed, then I started a new article and it opened again without me asking.”

Yeah, right. Then make it collapsible for saved articles only?

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#78 2016-09-06 09:12:56

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 10,742
Website GitHub

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

etc wrote #301102:

Yeah, right. Then make it collapsible for saved articles only?

Might be slightly confusing, but if it’s doable and makes sense then it might be worth a shot. Guess we can easily swap out the panel for a collapsible one after first save (as it’s a non-AJAX event) and from then on it’ll behave like a twisty, with its open/closed state (re)stored from the last article.

The bigger question is where would we put the expand/collapse links? If we move them back above the Sort & display box, it’s confusing when that box doesn’t collapse. If we keep them below that box, then it may also affect the state of the box above the clicked link, which is not great. The only other avenue I can think of is to move the links on save: below the box for new articles, above it for saved ones, but from my (admittedly hazy) UX knowledge, I recall shuffling UI elements around like that is not a good idea for users.

If you can figure something out, by all means give it a whirl. Dunno. I’m happy for it to remain fixed and just shift the categories out one day.


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#79 2016-09-06 09:13:18

phiw13
Plugin Author
From: Japan
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 2,697
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Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

etc wrote #301102:

Yeah, right. Then make it collapsible for saved articles only?

That would confusing, I think (subject came up in the previous thread).


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#80 2016-09-06 09:15:38

philwareham
Core designer
From: Haslemere, Surrey, UK
Registered: 2009-06-11
Posts: 3,553
Website GitHub Twitter

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

I agree with Philippe, please keep sort/display visible at all times. Categories can be moved to a collapsible if/when unlimited categories happens.

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#81 2016-09-06 10:08:33

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 4,662
Website GitHub

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

philwareham wrote #301105:

I agree with Philippe, please keep sort/display visible at all times. Categories can be moved to a collapsible if/when unlimited categories happens.

Fine, less work! But the collapse/expand link after Sort and display looks strange (a bit lost). The visual difference between collapsible and visible is enough for me to keep it on the top without any confusion.

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#82 2016-09-06 10:30:10

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 10,742
Website GitHub

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

etc wrote #301109:

the collapse/expand link after Sort and display looks strange (a bit lost).

Yeah, it’s not brilliant but the best I could come up with to satisfy the concerns. By all means revert my commit and put them back up top, or shove them somewhere more appropriate. It was just a test, as I can see how putting them up top could be confusing to newer users who aren’t as familiar with the Textpattern model as we are. And it was those users to which I believe Candyman was concerned about.

I suspect many users will miss “The visual difference between collapsible and visible”. To me, the addition of a little twisty triangle over on the far side is rather subtle. Unless the panel is delineated as special in some other, slightly more obvious, way (which brings its own issues wrt making it blend in with the surrounding visuals but also standing out somehow!) I suspect many more users will be surprised when the collapse/expand buttons “don’t work” on the first panel. Perhaps after a few clicks, the penny will drop and the difference between the panels will become obvious. Do we want that experience for users? I’m not sure ‘surprise’ is a desirable response when something is clicked in a UI :-)


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#83 2016-09-06 10:31:48

philwareham
Core designer
From: Haslemere, Surrey, UK
Registered: 2009-06-11
Posts: 3,553
Website GitHub Twitter

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

It’s fine as-is (underneath sort and display) for the sake of 4.6. We can revisit maybe in 4.7. Let’s prepare this thing for shipping now.

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#84 2016-09-06 10:33:19

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 10,742
Website GitHub

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.6.0 beta 3 released

philwareham wrote #301112:

It’s fine as-is (underneath sort and display) for the sake of 4.6. We can revisit maybe in 4.7. Let’s prepare this thing for shipping now.

Winner.


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