I want to edit/delete my forum data

Destry · 2018-08-15 18:04:23

Haha! You’ll find some fresh undies in the room at right.

But, I’m only half joking. I’ve actually been thinking about this for a while now and just not bothered to bring it up yet. Might as well ask the questions that anyone else could more seriously ask:

I’m using my real first name (which is dumb, but unforeseen at the time). What do I do to get it changed to something more anonymous?
I’ve been posting in here since 2004. A great majority of it completely obsolete at this point. How can I get the tapeworm’s proglottids removed?

I think you’d have reason to deny requests for complete deletion of an account. (Maybe. Maybe not. You delete bad accounts all the time, so why not good ones by sincere request?) But it’s perfectly feasible there could be some kind of back-post removal feature, like a number of posts ago, or a given time interval in years. Something consistent for everyone across the board.

So what do you say to these kinds of requests? And what’s the justification as the ‘Controller’ would be concerned?

I’m an armchair historian like anyone else, so I can appreciate the historical value (though old forum history is mostly nostalgia at this point), but let’s address the elephant.

jakob · 2018-08-15 21:16:59

I’m sure that’s possible but … Destry, I like you as you are ;-) Your fingerprints are also all over Textpattern, in the docs and in notes, thank yous and credits in the code and plugins, in txpmag and your first “Textpattern mechanics” instructions and … and … and …. And deservedly so, too.

I understand the many different reasons for nicks – thought about changing mine too, though for other reasons – but here your contribution is useful and deserved and – as I see it – why not have your true name attached to that.

Destry · 2018-08-15 22:44:06

Thanks, Jakob. I appreciate what you’re saying.

I don’t think a name change in the forum is too much disruption to mates here. It’s not so much about total anonymity online as it is about blurring the ink where true identity isn’t so important. My role as editor in those places is understandably my real identity, but here where the bulk of my link traces are — and showing up in SEs — could be less conspicuous without confusing anyone.

For example we know Bloke is Stef, and we use the two interchangably without trouble. And to his benefit, unlike myself, it probably does throw SE spiders through a loop.

I’d rather have premium stuff like TXP mag content surfacing than meaningless crap. Trim off old forum posts (e.g. at the ‘archive’ level, which I think happened once anyway) and that improves it further.

The fact a lot of people here do use pseudos means they should understand if someone else might like to benefit from that too. My name is a double edged sword when it comes to this stuff. It’s not anonymous, and it’s rather unique, so easy to find if people are looking for me. I’m not one zebra in a big herd like someone named John, Steve, David, etc.

Okay, regarding my first Q, I’ll just send a private request to the controller if I ever decide to do that. Changing from a real name to a pseudo seems like a valid request to grant, as opposed to pointlessly changing one already a pseodo. That’s where controller could draw the line to keep requests very low and easy to handle.

So what about the second question of trimming old post history? Something equal across the board might be easier to administer technologically, but it won’t appeal to everyone equally, understandably. It would have to be some setting in personal preferences I guess? Tough one. Unless we can agree on an archive purge date, that might be a valid decline, if unfortunately.

Last edited by Destry (2018-08-16 09:52:51)

gaekwad · 2018-08-17 08:07:35

Destry wrote #313448:

I’m using my real first name (which is dumb, but unforeseen at the time). What do I do to get it changed to something more anonymous?

Hi, I’m Pete. My nickname here is a short-lived one I used 13+ years ago when I was struggling for some kind of online identity. It’s…a constant reminder of my blunder years.

I’m an armchair historian like anyone else, so I can appreciate the historical value (though old forum history is mostly nostalgia at this point), but let’s address the elephant.

Some of it might also be harmful. I mean, the folks who only come here where there’s a Textpattern problem may search keywords, find some out-of-date or irrelevant information, act on it, and get into more of a mess.

I don’t have a solution, but I have suggestions.

Destry · 2018-08-17 09:46:28

gaekwad wrote #313466:

Some of it might also be harmful. I mean, the folks who only come here where there’s a Textpattern problem may search keywords, find some out-of-date or irrelevant information, act on it, and get into more of a mess.

That’s actually a good point. And having some routine purge mechanism would also work to move the community into a more curatorial mindset, more conscientiously capturing helpful information as docs instead of dropping and forgetting it in the forum. This latter behaviour has, historically, lead to a tonne of redundancy and hard to find information.

The same is true for information that could be blog posts, etc. And long plugin threads have always been a problem; an actual plugin site has been the subject of conversation since day one. Same can be said for theme information. Getting important information about that into it’s own site early before it piles up in here would be beneficial. This community has always looked to this forum as the everything Txp, but from an information management standpoint it should not be.

This is not a new idea. We’ve talked about it before many times. What we didn’t talk about though, that I recall, is regular forum purging. That might be the game changer. When you know there’s a time limit on things, you think more carefully about what to say and where information should go.

Or maybe certain posts are harmful in some other respect, which we should not dwell on, but I can recall conversations, some epics, mine and that of others, that would be hard to read today, and completely meaningless at this point. That kind of thing doesn’t need to remain online clogging up search results or becoming fodder for some trolls’ maligned entertainment. Old content never helps the task at hand, unless you’re a historian or investigative journo, it only ever helps people with a grudge or otherwise unconstructive intentions, which could be the journo, even.

Now, all that is simply to point out what could be a benefit to the community by cleaning up after ouselves instead of thinking the garbage dump will never get full.

Five years to the day seems like a good cutoff point. Keep a backup file just in case, blah yadda, but otherwise the forum has a history of five years. If info has longer value it should be curated out to one of the other long-term sites.

Whether we can all agree to the idea, let alone a time value. That’s another story.

colak · 2018-08-17 10:37:05

Destry wrote #313467:

Five years to the day seems like a good cutoff point. Keep a backup file just in case, blah yadda, but otherwise the forum has a history of five years. If info has longer value it should be curated out to one of the other long-term sites.

A very quick interruption… I would hate to see this kind of purge – although I know that it has happened before. There is a lot of how-tos (on txp, js, css, php, etc) which are still very relevant after all this years.

Considering that there are still many old installs out there, this forum archive is the only place to find much of the information needed.

Destry · 2018-08-17 11:05:03

colak wrote #313469:

I would hate to see this kind of purge

That’s the reaction I expect most people have, and I’m not remotely interested in trying to argue against it. I’m just pointing out the somewhat fallacy of the massive forum legacy.

There is a lot of how-tos (on txp, js, css, php, etc) which are still very relevant after all this years.

Yes, but my point was, if between the lines, a casual audit of this stuff is made, in no particular rush, and such information of perceived value is curated out to docs, etc. I’d also not put emphasis on ‘a lot’. There’s probably very little of such old useful info in comparison to the full bulk of content in the forum, and especially going back more than 5 years.

But, there would always be a backup, at least initially. A data plan would try to reduce how much is stored and for how long. But initially you’d have the full dump to poke through until satisfied.

And the backup/archive part might be the key here. In GDPR-compliant systems, a person should be able to make a data export of their post history. How that could be done in an autonomous way for the forum here, I don’t know, but it seams possible manually, with the help of SQL, and maybe from that it could be more automated with a custom script, or whatever, hooked into the preferences. If not automated, then as controller I wouldn’t grant such requests for every account ever created, but I’d consider it for active members who cared to have one for their post history (and theirs alone) before any such purge was made.

Destry · 2018-08-17 11:21:34

Also, is the forum in the Wayback Machine? Yep. So you absolutely do not need to keep 15 years of forum posts here.

towndock · 2018-08-17 12:56:17

Forum history is a really useful tool. Deleting old posts seems most unwise.

Destry · 2018-08-17 14:35:25

Reminder, all, I’m not taking a stance to see that it gets done. Ultimately it’s not my call. But I think it’s useful to exhaust the different avenues of looking at this.

towndock wrote #313473:

Forum history is a really useful tool.

I don’t think anyone would disagree on that point. Considering everything I’ve unfolded so far about recovering what is useful and what probably isn’t, why do you say that? What specifically is the entire history useful for?

Another avenue that really hasn’t been addressed thoroughly, which was partly the motive for this thread, is how Textpattern acknowledges that this system collects personal data and serves EU citizens. In this case, a user choosing to create an account is the key to accepting the fact data must be collected, and on that point, whether Textpattern declines all requests thereafter for any change or removal of account data or post history (complete or partial), it still needs some kind of public policy on it for reference. Remember, GDPR applies retroactively, not just new accounts after 28 May 2018.

Another avenue of thinking is what someone can do if no action is taken. For example, I might not like having to painstakingly delete old posts of mine one at a time, but I certainly could, starting with old stuff, and wherever such a post was a thread-starter, that entire thread would be gone, taking every participant’s replies with it. That this hasn’t happened before (and maybe it has but we haven’t noticed) might just be something we take for granted, or expect to be a community norm of conduct. That begins to get political, and a question of individual rights to privacy. Brow-beating someone because they want to exercise that right is not a proper response. A technological response, backed by an appropriate policy must be put in place. On that point I would indeed argue that every individual has the right to delete their own posts, if they want to, and would be justified in doing so in this day and age, even if there is no automated purging.

So, hmmm. Curious.

Destry · 2018-08-17 14:49:03

Destry wrote #313476:

Another avenue that really hasn’t been addressed thoroughly, which was partly the motive for this thread, is how Textpattern acknowledges that this system collects personal data and serves EU citizens.

Correcting myself. Txp does have a policy started. The link is just so small down there I always forget about it. ;)

But you can see how it may not yet be fully sufficient for this platform specifically.

colak · 2018-08-17 16:36:50

I think that when they were authoring GDPR, they were aiming at the big boys and web 2 technologies. Let’s not forget that forums is a 90s invention and the way they are coded has nothing to do with individual streams but discussion.

At the moment, anybody can delete their own posts here, be it one by one. They can also edit them if they want to. The way that the software is structured though, is that if the first post in a thread is deleted, the whole thread kicks the bucket too.

Back in 2012 I attended the meetings and closed discussions of the Unlike Us network. In one meeting we were discussing about how to communicate after the people of the network deleted their facebook accounts. I proposed the creation of a forum, an idea which was considered retro at the time.

What I like about forums is that I can search and find what I am looking for. I can take a break from them for a few days and when I reconnect, it tells me what’s new.

I think that what you are inadvertently asking is for forum software to be like the social media software. It is not, as it is not about the endless streaming of information. This is one of the reasons why this community survived for so many years.

I can understand and I much communicate with your anxieties. I nevertheless also fear of a bigger game been played by the EU. What appears that you are communicating are the rights of the individual. This is of course what GDPR is supposed to be protecting. What I am thinking about is how the community can benefit, the rights of the community as a collective entity. Admittedly the two types of rights are not always compatible with each other but in reality, this is what this discussion is all about.

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#1 2018-08-15 18:04:23