Outdated code in existing designs

els · 2011-01-24 20:14:10

Every once in a while (two today) new users who installed a template are confused by the error messages they get because the template contains deprecated tags. Or attributes without quotes, plugins that don’t work anymore or other outdated code.

I assume that most designers don’t maintain their templates once submitted, and I don’t think we should expect Stuart to do that. But I also don’t think it’s such a good thing that this is a new user’s first impression of Txp…

Any ideas on how to tackle this?

hcgtv · 2011-01-24 20:44:24

Els, that’s a problem that will always exist, since Textpattern will evolve over time. That’s been one of my biggest concerns in creating templates, having to go back though them after every release to verify they continue working, having experienced this on other systems that I’ve created templates for.

One way to warn users is to label each template as to what release it was made with, a verified to work with number. And should someone care to take on the task, bring those templates up to the latest version when needed.

Bloke · 2011-01-24 20:59:00

Els wrote:

Any ideas on how to tackle this?

I wonder if the template installer could check? It’d be a bit of a tall order but if we could somehow provide/maintain a machine-readable list of deprecated/altered attributes or outdated tags (there really aren’t that many) and have that available somewhere in a well-known location, then on install there’s nothing to stop a clever installation plugin checking this list and either a) upgrading templates if possible as they are inserted into the database, b) at the very least alerting the user that there might be a problem and showing them which places to look.

I don’t know what the format of the upgrade file could be, but off the top of my head it might contain:

Item              | Change   | From     | To        | When
txp:css           | attname  | n        | name      | 4.3.0
txp:sitename      | tagname  | sitename | site_name | 4.0.5
txp:asy_wondertag | obsolete |          |           | 4.0.7
...

Or something like that.

Plugins are probably more tricky but, again, a feed is available from textpattern.org such that all you do is throw a list of plugins at it and it returns the current versions. Simply parsing that list will allow the installer to give some kind of report to the user to suggest upgrading plugins.

I don’t think either are rocket science, but it would need some collaboration between the de-facto installation mechanism (since there isn’t yet one in core) and someone who can compile and maintain said file and put it in a central location. When the core does have such a mechanism the same file can be used going forward. I’ve heard good things about the new ~cXc~ installation system. Maybe there’s an opportunity there?

Any better ideas anyone? Or anyone care to think it through a bit more.

Last edited by Bloke (2011-01-24 21:01:08)

els · 2011-01-24 21:11:16

Any better ideas anyone?

Not me, that is why I started this topic :) Something like Bert’s suggestion, add a kind of warning in a text file to the installation package, is the only thing that I’ve been able to think of. I’m not a template expert at all, I’ve only ever used one once. I only notice all these posts about error messages ;)
If it’s possible to replace deprecated tags in the installer, that sounds like a nice idea! Regarding outdated plugins, maybe just a notice would be enough.

Bloke · 2011-01-24 21:22:14

Els wrote:

If it’s possible to replace deprecated tags in the installer, that sounds like a nice idea!

The core has been known to take this approach when it hits an upgrade script with a known change. It’s just search and replace, although replacing an attribute is harder because there’s no guarantee of the order it’s been written in the template:

<txp:css n="mystyle" format="link" media="print" />

vs.

<txp:css format="link" media="print" n="mystyle" />

and any number of permutations in between, including those with spurious spaces between < and the tag name, maybe. For anyone who loves regexes, this kind of thing is a wet dream. It’s probably not super tricky but I barely tolerate regexes.

And yes, a notification for plugins is all that can reliably be expected, but that’s sufficient. A simple post-installation report of what was tried (success/failure) and what needs to be done is all that’s required I think.

thebombsite · 2011-01-25 11:59:42

Actually this is an awkward problem and I’m probably the biggest single culprit. It is somewhat time consuming to have to go back through all my own themes every time there is a tag change though when I am aware that someone has a problem I tend to update the theme being discussed.

The biggest part of this problem though, for my themes, is that I don’t always know there is a problem because people bring it here instead of commenting on Textgarden or add their comment to the general forum instead of finding the theme’s specific entry. When they comment generally here I am not notified. If they comment on Textgarden, I am, even if it isn’t my theme.

I am also not too sure that tag changes are publicised well enough. Maybe there should be a special forum documenting tag changes, what they were, what they are now and the most likely places to find them. Or maybe that should be on Textgarden??

The most likely solution though is to get people to comment on Textgarden so I know about it. As I say, if it is one of my own themes I will most likely update the download whilst I am at it. As for other peoples’ themes, whilst I am happy to give a commenter guidance on a fix, I do not have the time to update everything and I don’t have access to update the download file anyway because it isn’t hosted on Textgarden. Theme authors need to take more responsibility for their own work. It’s all very well producing something on the off-chance that a prize is in the offing but after that it seems that abandonment is the most likely course.

I don’t think that using the install plugin has any legs. For one thing there are only a very limited number of themes that will have it compared to the total number available (indeed as of writing this there are a total of 0) and, for my own themes, those that do use it will be kept up-to-date. You will note that all of my ProText Themes, even the free ones, have been updated to 4.3.0.

Having said that there is a facility in the install plugin to add a README doc which could specify details such as Txp version but that information already exists on Textgarden if people look.

Last edited by thebombsite (2011-01-25 12:03:33)

tye · 2011-01-27 00:31:29

How about a new forum thread for each new theme started by the theme creator so they can get notified of any questions?

This seems to kind of happen… but people are maybe not using the feature?

Adding a lnks in Textgarden to the forum thread for each theme would help people find the place to ask questions, report broken tags etc

And how about links to different versions of the theme for different txp versions (I’m not sure if this is relevant, but maybe some people use old versions of txp?)

I agree with Stuart about creating a email list / or forum which all theme designers should subscribe to which outlines relevant news for theme designers including new tag changes and anything else related.

If a theme designer no longer wants to support a theme – there could be a forum/thread for orphaned themes where people could take over the development.

Kind of like centralising all theme questions, problems, forum, or like Stuart says, creating a separate forum on the Textgarden for this purpose – although I’m more for keeping if here and tidying up what we have – but either would be an improvement

MattD · 2011-01-27 05:40:56

tye wrote:

How about a new forum thread for each new theme started by the theme creator so they can get notified of any questions?

In my opinion those questions belong in the comments for the theme on textgarden and not in the forum.

tye · 2011-01-27 06:03:37

Possibly… but as Stuart said, more people seem to be coming here for answers rather than using the comment system on Textgarden – if we can figure out how to get them to use Textgarden, then yes, I agree.

Maybe there needs to be more of a Push towards:

Code —> Goto Textpattern.com
Theme —> Goto Textgarden.org

In fact the great TXP Nextwork header on http://textgarden.org/layouts/251/sealight would look good to be included across all the sites.

pagou · 2011-04-02 10:39:27

i noticed that inside the themes, is a index.html, with instructions.
perhaps if all the designer, install, a section lets say: theme troubleshooting.
-which will give the ability to user, to pic from a list of problems (if any), the one that suits better.
-when the user push the finish button, the report been sending to theme designer/Textgarden.
-parallel, this will give the auto ability for some help, in common problem.

also in text garden, to be add a line:

properties > work only with Txp version: 4.—.— needs this plug’ is. *this one is missing ( the data can be collect from a central and official place)

just a thought

GGSuper3 · 2011-05-15 21:00:11

What about implementing a simple reminder with a checklist box on front page of textpattern, as a simple visual reminder which I could complete and submit to the community(good webmanship). Social sites of course utilize performance/involvement/interaction badges with member benefits. eg. I keep all my txt sites up to date(latest version, current active plugins, etc.) and receive a ‘silver-txp’ seal membership in the txp community for doing so for areasonable period of time. I am a newer user of txp(just a few years) and would participate in such a system.
Just a thought…GG

uli · 2012-03-26 22:24:49

Bloke wrote:

Item              | Change   | From     | To        | When
txp:css           | attname  | n        | name      | 4.3.0
txp:sitename      | tagname  | sitename | site_name | 4.0.5
txp:asy_wondertag | obsolete |          |           | 4.0.7
...

When this takes shape please don’t forget to add txp:message

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#1 2011-01-24 20:14:10

Outdated code in existing designs

#2 2011-01-24 20:44:24

Re: Outdated code in existing designs

#3 2011-01-24 20:59:00

Re: Outdated code in existing designs

#4 2011-01-24 21:11:16

Re: Outdated code in existing designs

#5 2011-01-24 21:22:14

Re: Outdated code in existing designs

#6 2011-01-25 11:59:42

Re: Outdated code in existing designs

#7 2011-01-27 00:31:29

Re: Outdated code in existing designs

#8 2011-01-27 05:40:56

Re: Outdated code in existing designs

#9 2011-01-27 06:03:37

Re: Outdated code in existing designs

#10 2011-04-02 10:39:27

Re: Outdated code in existing designs

#11 2011-05-15 21:00:11

Re: Outdated code in existing designs

#12 2012-03-26 22:24:49

Re: Outdated code in existing designs

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