What does your client think of TXP, and how do you deal with that?

resplence · 2007-04-25 06:56:22

As a designer, I value the respect and preservation of my ideas. When I started working with web design, I was scared of how little control we have over the final product, as opposed to print design — and I’m not talking about browsers.

In print, when I finish a file, that’s it. It is finished; closed and sealed. If the client wants any changes, he has to ask me for it, and I get to charge accordingly (depending on the contract). And he knows this is how it works.

In web design, all the client needs to do is edit the source code or mess around in the CMS. More often than not this breaks the layout or his customizations just plain nullify the design (“I think big bold red text will really emphasize this point”). In the case that he has no patience for that and calls me asking for further adjustments, he gets frustrated for:

1. Not being delivered a product exactly the way he wanted (even though it was agreed upon prior to closing the deal);
2. Believing he should not have to pay for the extra changes since it was my fault for “messing up” the first time.

It can also be very frustrating trying to explain to a complete non-techie client how to update the site on his own, add or edit sections, etc., even when using the “simple systems” such as TextPattern or Wordpress. I’m used to creating identity and branding manuals, but creating user manuals for that end is exhausting.

I’ve also heard of a funny case where the client found out that the CMS his site runs on is free, and thinks the designer ripped him off by charging for the site.

So, I’d like to hear how do you deal with that, and if you have any bizarre/funny/retarded case to share.

jm · 2007-04-25 07:38:57

In my experience, clients love Textpattern because it is easy to use, once they get the hang of it. My clients are designers and developers though. If your client isn’t tech or design savvy, give them a restricted user account so creating and organizing content is what they do. After all, that is what they paid you for.

As far as educating your client, creating screencasts and/or simple user guides is a must. Video training tends to be more effective in my experience.

I’ve also heard of a funny case where the client found out that the CMS his site runs on is free, and thinks the designer ripped him off by charging for the site.

Ah, but it takes knowledge, skills, time, and effort to create the site. Using the client’s reasoning, Linux web hosting should be free too!

nardo · 2007-04-25 11:52:03

jm – what do u use for screencasts?

lee · 2007-04-25 12:12:30

I’ve found that giving clients restricted access means letting them only update existing content or adding a blog entry. But this is never enough for them, they want to be able to add new sections, pages and even add item to the site navigation without learning TP tags or ever seeing a byte of code. IMO TP isn’t the CMS to use if a non tech client wants this level of control. Drupal could be worth a look, non tech clients can add the TP equivalent of sections, pages etc. without any coding (tags), just by using the site admin.

resplence · 2007-04-25 15:27:39

lee wrote:

I’ve found that giving clients restricted access means letting them only update existing content or adding a blog entry. But this is never enough for them, they want to be able to add new sections, pages and even add item to the site navigation without learning TP tags or ever seeing a byte of code.

That is exactly my experience, too. And in my opinion, it’s their right to do so. For me, building a web site for a client should be akin to “teaching him to fish”, but without all the dirty work. Some will argue that you simply can’t, or shouldn’t, run a website without learning HTML, but for a “regular person”, that, and learning the intricacies of a CMS, is simply cumbersome. But I still have to find the CMS that will allow me just the right degree of control and freedom.

Last edited by resplence (2007-04-25 15:28:47)

RedFox · 2007-04-25 17:40:58

Almost every client of mine ONLY wants to change text and images in articles or wants to make new articles with text and images … and that’s really easy with TXP. However I did make a small online tutorial (in Dutch) in which clients learn and can practice how to use TXP in that way and even can learn how to modify very simple ‘forms’. For a new navigation button or something like that, they have to come to me … :)

If there is a client who wants more than that, don’t take the job! It’s asking for really big trouble if your skills are of a designer and not of programmer and even then! I know … :(

Last edited by RedFox (2007-04-25 17:56:51)

jm · 2007-04-25 23:12:01

nardo wrote:

jm – what do u use for screencasts?

When I was using Windows, Macromedia Captivate was excellent. Wink was also great for quick screencasts (and it’s free).

Now that I’m on a Mac, I haven’t done many. I used the last free version of iShowU (climb the URL tree of the /downloads section – you’ll find it), but it was extremely alpha. Until a free Mac screencast app comes out, I think I’ll just fire up Wink in Windows or take more screenshots.

zem · 2007-04-26 01:12:02

But this is never enough for them, they want to be able to add new sections, pages and even add item to the site navigation without learning TP tags or ever seeing a byte of code. IMO TP isn’t the CMS to use if a non tech client wants this level of control. Drupal could be worth a look, non tech clients can add the TP equivalent of sections, pages etc. without any coding (tags), just by using the site admin.

What’s stopping you from doing this with Textpattern? Non-technical users ought to be able to add sections without touching templates or understanding tags, at least in theory. What’s different about the practice?

resplence · 2007-04-26 01:38:59

zem wrote:

Non-technical users ought to be able to add sections without touching templates or understanding tags, at least in theory.

How? I never even thought that was possible with TXP.

Last edited by resplence (2007-04-26 01:39:47)

zem · 2007-04-26 01:41:51

presentation/sections, type the section name, click Create.

If necessary, change the options and select a different template and stylesheet.

resplence · 2007-04-26 01:44:21

Oh, that. Obvious, yeah. I was thinking about something else, nevermind me, guys.

lee · 2007-04-26 07:13:16

Lee wrote:

But this is never enough for them, they want to be able to add new sections, pages and even add item to the site navigation without learning TP tags or ever seeing a byte of code. IMO TP isn’t the CMS to use if a non tech client wants this level of control. Drupal could be worth a look, non tech clients can add the TP equivalent of sections, pages etc. without any coding (tags), just by using the site admin.

Zem wrote:

What’s stopping you from doing this with Textpattern? Non-technical users ought to be able to add sections without touching templates or understanding tags, at least in theory. What’s different about the practice?

Adding a section in admin is one thing, getting it to display on the front end of a site is another – the if_section’s, forms etc still need to be setup in pages. And then the section might need adding to the website navigation, it goes on…

I love TP for letting me quickly develop/change a site and for the way it lets lets non tech clients (most clients imo) update existing content. For clients that want add pages, change the site navigation etc. don’t think TP is for them.

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#1 2007-04-25 06:56:22

What does your client think of TXP, and how do you deal with that?

#2 2007-04-25 07:38:57

Re: What does your client think of TXP, and how do you deal with that?

#3 2007-04-25 11:52:03

Re: What does your client think of TXP, and how do you deal with that?

#4 2007-04-25 12:12:30

Re: What does your client think of TXP, and how do you deal with that?

#5 2007-04-25 15:27:39

Re: What does your client think of TXP, and how do you deal with that?

#6 2007-04-25 17:40:58

Re: What does your client think of TXP, and how do you deal with that?

#7 2007-04-25 23:12:01

Re: What does your client think of TXP, and how do you deal with that?

#8 2007-04-26 01:12:02

Re: What does your client think of TXP, and how do you deal with that?

#9 2007-04-26 01:38:59

Re: What does your client think of TXP, and how do you deal with that?

#10 2007-04-26 01:41:51

Re: What does your client think of TXP, and how do you deal with that?

#11 2007-04-26 01:44:21

Re: What does your client think of TXP, and how do you deal with that?

#12 2007-04-26 07:13:16

Re: What does your client think of TXP, and how do you deal with that?

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