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Promoting "native" Textpattern usage
I thought I’d throw this topic in for discussion. It’s more to do with the “How do I…?” and “Troubleshooting” forums but can apply just about anywhere here methinks. With the advent of TXP 4.0.2 there is a lot of new functionality which I fear is not being promoted in favour of jumping on the back of a plug-in.
For my own part I think that the higher purpose behind this forum should be to show people how to use Textpattern first, then show them how to use other stuff afterwards if TXP on it’s own can’t solve the problem. For example the new functionality of TXP tags such as <code><txp:if_section></code> and <code><txp:if_category></code> along with their respective “attributes” makes plug-ins for things like “if_section”, “if_category” and “if_frontpage” pretty much defunct yet people are still pushing the use of those plug-ins.
New tags like <code><txp:if_different></code> have made plug-ins like “rss_suparchive” a lot less useful than they used to be plus we now have the “title” attribute for section and category tags which reduces the usefulness of plug-ins such as “ob1_title”.
Now I’m not suggesting that we shouldn’t be using plug-ins at all, but that they should only be used for functions that TXP doesn’t have. Apart from that a lower reliance on plug-ins will probably have the added benefit of reducing database loads, plus we will be showing new and old users how to use Textpattern in a better way.
Thoughts??
Last edited by thebombsite (2005-11-26 04:11:41)
Stuart
In a Time of Universal Deceit
Telling the Truth is Revolutionary.
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Re: Promoting "native" Textpattern usage
I don’t think people are knowingly advocating plugins for things which can be solved without them.
As for showing them how to use built-in tags, we’ve opened the Tag-Examples forum, and we usually explain (some) new tags on the weblog, and they appear in the documentation.
So I think what’s happening is that people make their experiences when a problem can only be solved with a plugin, and since it works, they stick with it and not everybody follows all the discussions and developments, so they probably miss out on the changes/new stuff. Hence they help to the best of their abilities.
Of course if other people see that and know that equivalent things can be achieved without a plugin, there’s no harm, only benefit in explaining that.
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Re: Promoting "native" Textpattern usage
Agreed. I am aware that changes and new stuff gets discussed in the Dev. weblog but I’m not sure that enough people are reading it. I miss stuff myself. The new Tag forum is excellent but tends to discuss new tags and not changed and improved tags. I might just do something about that. :)
Stuart
In a Time of Universal Deceit
Telling the Truth is Revolutionary.
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Re: Promoting "native" Textpattern usage
Stuart,
I’m all for that. I think I probably need to review all that I am doing with plugins and take an axe to a few.
For me and for others interested. Could you mention some of the benefits of not using plugins? I assume from a few obscure comments around the forum that there is a speed benefit because plugins have to be accessed by the database, whereas core tags don’t? Can you tell I am new to this :)
Thanks man,
Matthew
- I am Squared Eye and I
am launchinghave launched Pattern Tap
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Re: Promoting "native" Textpattern usage
Good post Stuart. I am not up to date with the new tags either, particularly as you said – its not clear how the if_”“ plugins might become defunt. Examples are very helpful for those who miss the latest news/developments.
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Re: Promoting "native" Textpattern usage
I fear I am the guilty one who prompted thebombsite to begin this topic, with my posts in this thread. Err…
Anyway, I agree that native TXP tags are to be preferred to plugins, assuming you get the same functionality either way. For me it’s not a speed issue, as I currently have no problems there. It just makes the website easier to maintain. The TextBook tag list is usually the first place I go when I am trying to recall what tag to use. Plugin documentation is, necessarily, scattered. And then after a TXP update you have to check that all of your plugins are still working correctly.
Plugins are great for custom functionality. But for the basics please give me a TXP tag.
That said, I hope the developers will continue to focus on rounding out basic functionality and leave the more complex stuff for plugins.
Code is topiary
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Re: Promoting "native" Textpattern usage
No it wasn’t just you jsoo. ;) As Sencer says, people have become so used to doing something with a plug-in that when a new or improved TXP tag comes along it kind of sails past them. And not enough people read the Devs weblog methinks!
Because I use SVN very regularly I tend to pick these things up as they come along so I can recode little bits of my site at a time whereas someone who only updates for official releases is faced with the prospect of having lots of code to change assuming they want to do it at all.
As I suggested I shall start adding more to the “Tags” forum in relation to tags that have been improved in functionality.
Stuart
In a Time of Universal Deceit
Telling the Truth is Revolutionary.
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Re: Promoting "native" Textpattern usage
This seems like a post worthy of the Docs Discussion or Tags forum, and it looks like boblet beat you with the same line of thinking by a couple of hours, and oldi beat you both by a couple of days. In any case, I think this is a hot topic, and so does a lot of other people, apparently.
Frankly, I love to see this new wave of core functionality, and wonder if it’s time existing plugins are evaluated for relevance, and if not relevant to be weeded out of the crop as to not confuse people about what is the better course of action to take in design. This would certainly be more beneficial for documentation efforts, both FAQ and TextBook. I think there is a practical standpoint here that plugin authors should respect (and probably will).
I’ve always had a strong preference for core functionality over plugins, for one main reason: the core is natively supported no matter what, and immediately functioning upon each stable release. To me, that’s so important (and clients appreciate it too) that I will intentionally (and gladly) not pursue the ooooh aaaah factors some plugins provide because I know there is a time lag (or worse risk) that you face for each plugin to function correctly with each new system release. Never a problem when you go core. There are some plugins I would like to try and just haven’t got around to implementing, but these plugins generally have to do with enhancing the admin side of things, like wilshire’s database manager plugin. Otherwise, I gladly bide my time until new presentation enhancements are introduced in the core.
Side: The fascination for plugins seem to be for some people, like tattoos are for others…once you start up with them you keep getting more whether you really need them or not. And like tattoos, they probably realize later what a bad choice it was. I see this time and again; people jump all over a new plugin then cry and bemoan when the plugin author can’t keep up with it or plumb disappears.
Last edited by Destry (2005-11-28 12:19:32)
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Re: Promoting "native" Textpattern usage
Actually Destry I think you will find that it all started here when people wanted to know how I had replaced all the plug-ins that this theme originally had. Indeed I had been thinking about this even earlier as I answered forum questions where plug-ins were proposed as solutions for things that could be done natively. So it’s something that has been rolling around in my empty head for a while now. Just took me a while to do something about it.
I agree whole-heartedly with your last point. :)
Stuart
In a Time of Universal Deceit
Telling the Truth is Revolutionary.
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Re: Promoting "native" Textpattern usage
Ah, I stand corrected, by 1 hour, 20 minutes, and 17 seconds ;)
Anyway, I whole-heartedly agree that everybodies input on all of this is right on the money…that core is strong and elaborated documentation of it is needing captured somewhere.
There’s the FAQ, there’s the TxB Tag pages themselves for quick and dirty examples, and if the elaborations become robust case study examples, why not create entire TxB pages devoted to such subjects and link list them in the new Expanded_Examples_and_Case_Studies, everyone. ;)
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Re: Promoting "native" Textpattern usage
Not to play devil’s advocate or anything, but I must admit there are still times I find myself frustrated with the way that TxP does things versus every other CMS I have used. And that is when I start writing plugins.
For instance, the default article form for CMS Styles includes txp:mkp_article_id, txp:mkp_comments_link, txp:mkp_comments_phrase, and txp:mkp_comments_count. Oh, and txp:upm_section_title as well. While I certainly could make the design work without any of these, it wouldn’t do precisely what I wanted.
While minimizing plugin use is a worthy goal, I don’t think eliminating them should be if you don’t end up with results you want.
Last edited by michaelkpate (2006-10-20 16:08:40)
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Re: Promoting "native" Textpattern usage
I wouldn’t argue with that Michael, but I’m not advocating trying to rid ourselves entirely of plug-ins. All I’m saying is that there are new and improved tags which replace certain widely used plug-ins completely such as “if_section” and “if_category” plug-ins, certain “if” tags from the “glx_if” plug-in, and “ob1_title” can pretty much be replaced. The new “if_different” tags can create both category and monthly archives, both with menus, so “rss_suparchive” is less useful now though there will always be someone who wants some small thing it does that TXP doesn’t. If you can do it with TXP it will likely reduce database loads and also you won’t have problems with plug-ins breaking when you upgrade the core which might prompt more people to upgrade quickly rather than hanging about because they don’t fancy the idea. I mean I’ve spotted someone recently who’s still on RC3 for crying out loud. How the hell I’m I supposed to help them out if I’ve no idea what tags they do have and they don’t have? My memory doesn’t stretch that far back. Makes my job almost impossible. Not to mention the security aspect.
I just feel it’s my mission to educate you all, apart from which, it gives me something to do when it’s snowing. :grin:
And why aren’t all your plug-ins available here then?
Stuart
In a Time of Universal Deceit
Telling the Truth is Revolutionary.
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