TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

davidm · 2005-06-22 20:42:39

What can I say ? I am amazed by the richness of the debate, and all the good ideas !

@kemie : welcome on board :-))

@mary : I didn’t know this could be done (but then again I am no coder), I guess such an admin plugin would be much appreciated by the whole community ! And it would widen the range of templates we would be able to offer newcomers and the community. That’s a very nice idea.

@bizartist : 100% with you on everything you said, and thanks for the work :-)
A week should be enough to wrap it up, since everyone is contributing with such enthusiasm ! The timeline was exactly what I had in mind : I also have many projects running (two of which are textpattern-based :)

This thing is rolling, baby, me happy :-)) !!!
Thanks all !

kennethlove666 · 2005-06-22 22:10:04

As far as a gallery site, Mary’s suggestion makes sense. You want to show what can be done. Wow, look what XXXXX did with Textpattern! I’m gonna use that template!

This isn’t a gallery, though. It’s a contest and there has to be a standard starting ground. If your design ability is limited by a sparse template, then I’m sorry, but maybe you shouldn’t be in this contest. If it’s “here, do whatever you want so long as it uses Textpattern” then it’s not a fair contest to produce the best templates.

And regardless, if it’s not easy to set up, it won’t be used. The more forms and plugins you stick in your package the harder it’s going to be for a new person to get their mind around, and I don’t think we need any increase in the volume of starter posts in “How Do I…?”.

marios · 2005-06-22 22:12:44

> kennethlove666 wrote:

> As far as a gallery site, Mary’s suggestion makes sense. You want to show what can be done. Wow, look what XXXXX did with Textpattern! I’m gonna use that template!

This isn’t a gallery, though. It’s a contest and there has to be a standard starting ground.

right,… That’s more then true.
Agree with mary allso (But disagree on the CSS point)
This is very much about CSS and the styling is going to be different, since you are styling dynamic elements as well.
In that regard we could just set up a template frame with some of the most essential txp:tags,add some dummy text elements (or meaningfull)
if you’d prefer the choice wheather default style should be dumbed down or not should be up to you anyway
regards, marios

Last edited by marios (2005-06-22 22:24:01)

bizartist · 2005-06-23 00:36:02

In my vision, the whole idea of templates is to lure in new, non-technical users, with the hopes that seeing the potential of TXP will inspire them to dig around a little under the hood and share that experience with others. This being the case, the biggest category of non-tech users on the web right now seems to be bloggers (which is probably why TXP is a blog by default).

Most of these people don’t look at TXP right away because it is not very pretty out of the box, at least to the non-artist blogger. I really like the feel of a blank canvas personally, but that’s a matter of taste). The bulk of these users make a beeline for WordPress because it gives them Kubrick out of the box and an easy template mechanism for getting and applying more templates.

In order to increase the “buzz” around textpattern, we need a healthy amount of base-level users to start spreading the word and increasing the visibility of the product. The base-level user wants to do the absolute minimum to get a nice pretty blog setup so they can get to work pooring their heart and soul into the content (which attracts new potential users who will wonder what system the blogger is using).

This, I believe, is the spirit of this contest (correct me if I’m wrong David):

To produce stylish, easy to install blog templates that will attract more base level users to grow the community around TXP

And if we are talking about style, then we are talking about CSS and everything else should be stripped down to its bare essentials. Not to the TXP default page neccessarily, but a nice clean XHTML (strict/traditional?) page that is well suited to the new blogger on the block, or converts from existing systems…

Last edited by bizartist (2005-06-23 00:40:44)

bizartist · 2005-06-23 00:44:14

woops, sorry for the essay everyone… (steps down off of soap box)

I feel like I should have ended that with “Can I get a Hallelujah?” ;)

thebombsite · 2005-06-23 01:24:49

I think you should understand that most people new to TXP can do simple copy/paste. I haven’t been doing my TXP Systems for that long but over 2300 have already been downloaded. These are radical changes to the basic install though and include plug-ins as part of the download. On the other hand my TXP Gemini styles use a very basic template set which really only have the odd extra div added to enable “faux columns” and decent “clearing” for a footer. All you need to add is the CSS of your choice and they will all work with that one template set. Over 4000 of those have been downloaded. I mention this only because I think we might be trying to make it too simple.

Last edited by thebombsite (2005-06-23 01:25:38)

kennethlove666 · 2005-06-23 02:36:47

once again, this isn’t a gallery, it isn’t a template shop. it’s a contest.

what happens in the future happens in the future. it may be decided to include X, Y, and Z plugins and a template that provides for 3 sections. fine. that’s then.

for THIS CONTEST, it needs to be based on the default template (with a dummy article added that has more XHTML tags to represent the average post). it’ll be seen as a good way to get default templates for textpattern, and it’ll raise the awareness of how versatile the tool really is.

michaelkpate · 2005-06-23 03:19:35

> kennethlove666 wrote:

> for THIS CONTEST, it needs to be based on the default template (with a dummy article added that has more
> XHTML tags to represent the average post). it’ll be seen as a good way to get default templates for textpattern,
> and it’ll raise the awareness of how versatile the tool really is.

I keep using WordPress as an example, but this time I will use Movable Type. When MT 2.x was introduced, users had the option of choosing between 7 default stylesheets. I would submit that as limited as those were, the default MT template offered a lot more flexibility than the current default for TXP.

Forcing everyone to work with the same plugin-free template makes a sort of sense for the purposes of the contest. Limiting the contest to that particular template is really going to hamper everyone’s efforts.

swf · 2005-06-23 03:47:23

I know it’s slightly off topic, but regarding the installer, Chris McLeod created an installer for his Fortuitious theme. It was one php script that entered the new template and css into the database.

What ever happened to the pre-RC1 tempalte options. I guess that would be two years ago already, but I remember you could choose between one, two or three column tempaltes right in the interface.

Last edited by swf (2005-06-23 03:47:54)

swf · 2005-06-23 03:52:32

It might be nice to have the templates for the contest include a basic archive section with a list of entries.

I just remember this was one of the big “how do I?” questions for a while and until you set it up and get your head around the TXP way it was a confusing task. There is no reason why the default template couldn’t be a bit different than it is right now. Since we’re not at version 1 yet (soon tough right ;)), wouldn’t it make sense to adjust the default template too?

Mary · 2005-06-23 04:06:12

> If your design ability is limited by a sparse template, then I’m sorry, but maybe you shouldn’t be in this contest.

> This is very much about CSS…

If that actually is the case by general consensus, then indeed, it is a “contest” I’m not interested in being any part of. But I will wait and see what actually gets decided before saying that with certainty.

davidm · 2005-06-23 06:53:05

Whaow… I am kind of overwhelmed by this debate now !

When I used the word contest I didn’t refer to any pre-conceived idea, or past experience… also, remember I am french and sometimes I can make an inadequate use of words. The idea was much less that of a competition than a way to promote TXP, as bizartist said :

<blockquote>lure in new, non-technical users, with the hopes that seeing the potential of TXP will inspire them to dig around a little under the hood and share that experience with others. This being the case, the biggest category of non-tech users on the web right now seems to be bloggers (which is probably why TXP is a blog by default)

Most of these people don’t look at TXP right away because it is not very pretty out of the box, at least to the non-artist blogger. I really like the feel of a blank canvas personally, but that’s a matter of taste). The bulk of these users make a beeline for WordPress because it gives them Kubrick out of the box and an easy template mechanism for getting and applying more templates.

In order to increase the “buzz” around textpattern, we need a healthy amount of base-level users to start spreading the word and increasing the visibility of the product. The base-level user wants to do the absolute minimum to get a nice pretty blog setup so they can get to work pooring their heart and soul into the content (which attracts new potential users who will wonder what system the blogger is using).

This, I believe, is the spirit of this contest (correct me if I’m wrong David):</blockquote>

I am quoting bizartist because it’s exactly what I had in mind (this doesn’t mean that I am right). The contest idea was just an incentive, a way to give us motivation to work on this (most of us like the idea of a blank slate, and can build from there : proof is, the non-standard look of most txp sites, and what in my opinion makes this community different).

The thing is, like some others here I’d like to share txp’s power with non-tech users, create a buzz and have more people enjoy this wonderful tool that TXP is. On the other hand one big reason this community is so great is the talented people that it has brought together, be it coders or designers. You had to have an understanding of what Dean was trying to do, when you joined this community and decided that this was “different”. TXP is not “streamline” (correct me if the word is not well chosen).

I am conscious that doing some buzz, helping other using TXP out-of-the-box carries some risks, one being this community could be leveled-down and this could throw off some of the talent here. I don’t think this will happen, Dean will never go down the road of the least common denominator, but some of us old-timers might regret the old times if debates, ideas, sense of tight-knit community fades away…

Now about the “contest” (maybe another word would better fit), I think we have to find an agreement on how to go about it. I have read valid points from all parties, and frankly I have no certitudes right now. The only thing I’d say is we’d better start agreing on the goals (the why) before we can agree on the rules (the how)

<strong><font color=“red”>I think between feature-packed templates and feature-stripped templates we can find something to agree upon. </font></strong>

mary has proposed a very nice admin-side plugin idea, swf has made some scripts that import/export templates, forms and css. This really could be the start of a template engine. If it can be set up and used for this template “contest”, I am pretty much for it. We could also take this up to Dean – Zem – Kusor and see if this can be integrated (throwing ideas here, not a coder so correct any crazy things I might say).

The only thing that I’d insist on is being constructive
No matter what we decide we do, it will be a progress to have new templates. An even bigger progress if we have a way to export/import them, with an admin side plugin to top it all off :-)

Last edited by davidm (2005-06-23 06:55:46)

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#85 2005-06-22 20:42:39

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#86 2005-06-22 22:10:04

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#87 2005-06-22 22:12:44

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#88 2005-06-23 00:36:02

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#89 2005-06-23 00:44:14

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#90 2005-06-23 01:24:49

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#91 2005-06-23 02:36:47

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#92 2005-06-23 03:19:35

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#93 2005-06-23 03:47:23

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#94 2005-06-23 03:52:32

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#95 2005-06-23 04:06:12

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#96 2005-06-23 06:53:05

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

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