TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

Niconemo · 2005-06-22 07:58:57

Here I am too. :-)

Well… now I have to find some time to read that whole thread and… to make a Template according to it.
:-D

davidm · 2005-06-22 10:04:10

@kibitzer : Wowww, :blush: And nice french by the way :)

@thebombsite : Agreed about the style switcher, and the one place to host all entries (the now agreed upon TextGarden). Thanks for your proposal about hosting, I wouldn’t be against it :) About not being a designer, I wouldn’ think it should be a condition : I am not one myself ! I am a padawan, not a master ;) I’ll just do my best to create a usable template, and try to make it look decent :)

@marios and bizartist : You’re losing me there (maybe because I went to bed after the Pistons vs Spurs match at 6 a.m this morning, glad the Pistons did it !), I did not dig into the Zen Garden thing, and I am afraid I’ll have to rely on you both to integrate this to the rules :-) I think I’ll take 2 minutes to set up a Wiki page with something light like TiddlyWiki on my space to have an editable rule page, might be more convenient.

@creativesplash : I think TextGarden has the favors of all here, sounds nice and TextZine might confuse people with Alexandra’s txpmagazine. But of course, this is still open for debate !

@michaelkpate : I like the idea of having a new default page :)

@kenneth : I very much agree about the do it even if we don’t reach 25 or it doesn’t make it to a contest, I was beginning to think about this, since the ball is rolling pretty well and I am amazed by the momentum we have picked :-)) About the div/span thing vs inline elements, I pretty much agree, once again a good point

@niconemo : Well, that’s nice to have another french here :-) Bienvenue ! Well true, this thread is starting to be quite long… and hard to get all the elements in one take. One more reason for me to set up a Contest Rules wiki page for you all to edit. I’ll do that in a few minutes, in fact.

And I think the style switcher is pretty much agreed upon now. Indeed copy and paste should not be hard, but if we don’t limit ourselves to CSS, how do we build a pages & forms switcher on the contest website ? Unless we collectively come up with a default pages & forms combo of our own, and everybody works from there, I am not sure how we can achieve this…

Last edited by davidm (2005-06-22 10:07:40)

davidm · 2005-06-22 12:30:30

OK guys, now we can start working more easily on the collective writing : I’ve set up a Wiki at this adress :
http://www.david-molliere.net/textgarden/wiki?Home

For the moment, I just copied/pasted the draft I had proposed.
I did not add the elements that have been discussed in the meantime, since I think it would be best summed up by the author himself.

Feel free to edit the rules, and even create pages if necessary.

I chose ChuWiki because it’s very light and should be enough for the job.

It has a simple (limited) syntax : you shouldn’t have to much trouble editing, and we can restore previous versions, though we don’t have full revisionning therefore we won’t know what’s been added/deleted… that’s why I added a ChangeLog page.

We can still use this thread to discuss issues, of course…

Last edited by davidm (2005-06-22 12:32:32)

Hans · 2005-06-22 16:40:14

I remember a looooong while back we had a pretty instense discussion of templates…
Now it’s summer and I’ve got some more free time, so I’m up for the challenge.

kemie · 2005-06-22 19:02:48

sign me up! :D

bizartist · 2005-06-22 19:36:22

OK, added a couple sections to the wiki: Template Naming Scheme and Template Directory Structure. I figure we might as well leverage this contest to get consensus on such things, as our work here might have an impact on the the template system that finally gets put into TXP. Feel free to play around with these suggested schemes at will, I just wanted something in there as a starting point for discussion…

bizartist · 2005-06-22 19:39:47

Also, I suggest we start on July 1st, and run until September 1st. 2 months should be plenty of time for those of us (like myself) who have other projects running simultaneously. It also gives us about a week to nail down the Contest Rules…

Mary · 2005-06-22 20:04:40

Michael said:
> I am not sure that the default textpattern page would be described as anyone as having “the maximum possible flexibility.”

David said:
> …allow the modification of existing forms and page, but not the creation of new forms or pages. Would that be satisfactory?

Yes. While I realize we could all try and work from an agreed upon starting markup, that really limits design. How one person creates their markup can be quite different than another’s. We could be at deciding a base for some time.

CSS Zengarden was about CSS, how flexible it is, etc. There was not only starting markup, extras that could be used or not used.

We’re doing this to inspire interest in Textpattern, to give non-designers some templates for their site. Having potentially extraneous markup seems to clash, in my opinion, with that purpose.

Stuart said:
> It would be better if all the entries were hosted in one place methinks.

I agree, if its possible to do so. Makes it easier, more organized.

Micheal said:
> …if we expect someone to be able to replace the stylesheet, it should not be too much for them to replace the default page template as well.

I would hope so: its just another presentation sub-tab, requires clicking your mouse once… It would also be helpful to newbs: they’d get hand-on practise with something that isn’t necessarily an intuitive process, depending upon the person. I know I didn’t “get it” at first.

(…talking aloud…)

On the other hand, we have admin plugins now, creating a basic “installer” plugin wouldn’t be very difficult, if we’re talking about allowing changes to the defaults, but no additions. Forms and pages are just escaped, css is base64’d.

Create an “install style” tab, they paste in a string (like for plugins) click a button, and a few safe_updates(). All done.

Creating a helper script to help designers create a style would be fairly simple too. Put in a couple textareas, it gets run, creates the paste string.

That way, users could even try out several styles on their own, to see what they like best, but without much work.

If this idea sounds good for everyone, then I volunteer to contribute this (and if any coders want to help, we can share the job).

As far as length of time goes, when we start doesn’t matter to me, but the amount of time should be long enough for most, if not all, of us.

kemie · 2005-06-22 20:21:51

i like the idea of the installer, not only for the contest, but seems a handy thing to add to textpattern!

davidm · 2005-06-22 20:42:39

What can I say ? I am amazed by the richness of the debate, and all the good ideas !

@kemie : welcome on board :-))

@mary : I didn’t know this could be done (but then again I am no coder), I guess such an admin plugin would be much appreciated by the whole community ! And it would widen the range of templates we would be able to offer newcomers and the community. That’s a very nice idea.

@bizartist : 100% with you on everything you said, and thanks for the work :-)
A week should be enough to wrap it up, since everyone is contributing with such enthusiasm ! The timeline was exactly what I had in mind : I also have many projects running (two of which are textpattern-based :)

This thing is rolling, baby, me happy :-)) !!!
Thanks all !

kennethlove666 · 2005-06-22 22:10:04

As far as a gallery site, Mary’s suggestion makes sense. You want to show what can be done. Wow, look what XXXXX did with Textpattern! I’m gonna use that template!

This isn’t a gallery, though. It’s a contest and there has to be a standard starting ground. If your design ability is limited by a sparse template, then I’m sorry, but maybe you shouldn’t be in this contest. If it’s “here, do whatever you want so long as it uses Textpattern” then it’s not a fair contest to produce the best templates.

And regardless, if it’s not easy to set up, it won’t be used. The more forms and plugins you stick in your package the harder it’s going to be for a new person to get their mind around, and I don’t think we need any increase in the volume of starter posts in “How Do I…?”.

marios · 2005-06-22 22:12:44

> kennethlove666 wrote:

> As far as a gallery site, Mary’s suggestion makes sense. You want to show what can be done. Wow, look what XXXXX did with Textpattern! I’m gonna use that template!

This isn’t a gallery, though. It’s a contest and there has to be a standard starting ground.

right,… That’s more then true.
Agree with mary allso (But disagree on the CSS point)
This is very much about CSS and the styling is going to be different, since you are styling dynamic elements as well.
In that regard we could just set up a template frame with some of the most essential txp:tags,add some dummy text elements (or meaningfull)
if you’d prefer the choice wheather default style should be dumbed down or not should be up to you anyway
regards, marios

Last edited by marios (2005-06-22 22:24:01)

bizartist · 2005-06-23 00:36:02

In my vision, the whole idea of templates is to lure in new, non-technical users, with the hopes that seeing the potential of TXP will inspire them to dig around a little under the hood and share that experience with others. This being the case, the biggest category of non-tech users on the web right now seems to be bloggers (which is probably why TXP is a blog by default).

Most of these people don’t look at TXP right away because it is not very pretty out of the box, at least to the non-artist blogger. I really like the feel of a blank canvas personally, but that’s a matter of taste). The bulk of these users make a beeline for WordPress because it gives them Kubrick out of the box and an easy template mechanism for getting and applying more templates.

In order to increase the “buzz” around textpattern, we need a healthy amount of base-level users to start spreading the word and increasing the visibility of the product. The base-level user wants to do the absolute minimum to get a nice pretty blog setup so they can get to work pooring their heart and soul into the content (which attracts new potential users who will wonder what system the blogger is using).

This, I believe, is the spirit of this contest (correct me if I’m wrong David):

To produce stylish, easy to install blog templates that will attract more base level users to grow the community around TXP

And if we are talking about style, then we are talking about CSS and everything else should be stripped down to its bare essentials. Not to the TXP default page neccessarily, but a nice clean XHTML (strict/traditional?) page that is well suited to the new blogger on the block, or converts from existing systems…

Last edited by bizartist (2005-06-23 00:40:44)

bizartist · 2005-06-23 00:44:14

woops, sorry for the essay everyone… (steps down off of soap box)

I feel like I should have ended that with “Can I get a Hallelujah?” ;)

thebombsite · 2005-06-23 01:24:49

I think you should understand that most people new to TXP can do simple copy/paste. I haven’t been doing my TXP Systems for that long but over 2300 have already been downloaded. These are radical changes to the basic install though and include plug-ins as part of the download. On the other hand my TXP Gemini styles use a very basic template set which really only have the odd extra div added to enable “faux columns” and decent “clearing” for a footer. All you need to add is the CSS of your choice and they will all work with that one template set. Over 4000 of those have been downloaded. I mention this only because I think we might be trying to make it too simple.

Last edited by thebombsite (2005-06-23 01:25:38)

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Textpattern CMS support forum

#76 2005-06-22 07:58:57

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#77 2005-06-22 10:04:10

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#78 2005-06-22 12:30:30

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#79 2005-06-22 16:40:14

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#80 2005-06-22 19:02:48

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#81 2005-06-22 19:36:22

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#82 2005-06-22 19:39:47

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#83 2005-06-22 20:04:40

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#84 2005-06-22 20:21:51

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#85 2005-06-22 20:42:39

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#86 2005-06-22 22:10:04

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#87 2005-06-22 22:12:44

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#88 2005-06-23 00:36:02

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#89 2005-06-23 00:44:14

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

#90 2005-06-23 01:24:49

Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?

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