Corona virus

jakob · 2020-10-24 14:30:18

I’m sorry but I’m very wary of this statistical comparison and what “properly” counts as relevant, who’s fiddling the statistics to suit their corporate/political purpose and so on and so forth.

We’re talking people here, not numbers. If you actually know people who have been affected and struggled, people who months later have not recovered but before were perfectly healthy, people old and young who are isolated because others think its irrelevant to them / a scam / a nuisance / an invasion of privacy to wear a face mask or maintain a respectful distance, then the debate about statistics or “what’s true / what’s not true” becomes pretty irrelevant. It’s all fiddling while Rome burns.

Bloke · 2020-10-24 16:22:31

Absolutely. I’m not disputing the scale of the situation. And there are always, unfortunately, dickheads who refuse to help. I’m simply wary that while the pharma industry and media and politicians are scrambling for a “magic cure” (that may or may not even be viable long term given the nature of the virus that may mutate faster than we can control) for whatever point-scoring/profiteering gains, we’re not doing ourselves any long-term favours by hiding from this behind over-sanitization.

High quality and common sense cleanliness and a bit of distance is fine, along with greater focus on one’s own health and ownership thereof (the social model not medical model of healthcare). That will help minimise the risk to those who are in the demographic for this particular virus, and in fact everyone long-term, without compromising us all later. I’m still amazed how many people go to the bathroom at rest stops like motorway services and just walk out afterwards without washing their hands, or just wave them under the tap and leave.

At the other end of the scale, when everybody is forced to be slathered in lowest common-denominator anti-bacterial gel at every single public space, and has practically zero contact with any otherwise healthy bacteria, at what point do we as a population become anti-bacteria-resistant? i.e. become more susceptible to viruses that are not covid-related simply by not having natural immunity to things that are regularly harmless?

The whole theatrics over tracking people is laughable when people who collect the information don’t know why they’re doing it or how the data is useful. I went to the barbers recently. Each of the 5 stations – independently rented – had a pen and paper alongside it. Two columns on the sheet: name and phone number. Tell me: how is that helpful? There is no way on earth that if someone tests positive the salon/government can use that data to work out who was in the joint around the same time and therefore who might be affected.

Was the person who was in the salon immediately before the positive case there at the same time, waiting for the chair? And for how long? Or did they turn up half an hour earlier/later? And what about the people sitting on the lists that were sat either side of the chair this person sat in? How do they correlate?

The best they can do is hand over the names of everyone present on that day and they’ll all be contacted as potentially affected. As we know from social graphs, that will then have a massive knock-on effect, more strain on resources, more tests, more isolation for no reason, more economic impact, when 97% of those people in there that day could be bypassed if the salon collected the right information and were aware of its purpose to use it responsibly.

The countries that are doing well at controlling cases and keeping a lid on things are those that are switched on to data usage and how to apply it, and are then able to use that data effectively to make sensible policy decisions and public education. Not those that listen to soundbites and shoddily-collected raw numbers, then make decisions without studying the causes (*cough UK cough*).

Last edited by Bloke (2020-10-24 17:38:28)

singaz · 2020-10-25 01:28:25

Außerparlamentarischer Corona Untersuchungsausschuss

https://acu2020.org

singaz · 2020-10-25 02:52:34

WORLD DOCTORS ALLIANCE

An independent non-profit alliance of doctors, nurses, healthcare professionals and staff around the world who have united in the wake of the Covid-19 response chapter to share experiences with a view to ending all lockdowns and related damaging measures and to re-establish universal health determinance of psychological and physical wellbeing for all humanity.
https://worlddoctorsalliance.com

colak · 2020-10-25 05:47:38

Two columns on the sheet: name and phone number. Tell me: how is that helpful? There is no way on earth that if someone tests positive the salon/government can use that data to work out who was in the joint around the same time and therefore who might be affected.

We have to do this in our exhibition space. We include:

Date
Arrival time
Departure time
Name and Surname
Telephone number

We require all who enter the space to wear a mask and we spray their hands with 99.9% alcohol on their arrival.

Admittedly we still have a problem with some idiots who insist on keeping their nose outside the mask, giving the bs excuse that they cannot breath. I normally respond to that but advising them that they should not leave their homes as they are obviously in a very vulnerable group.

phiw13 · 2020-10-25 08:26:13

colak wrote #326553:

Departure time

Name and Surname

Telephone number

Out of curiosity more than anything, do you get real names & tel. numbers ? I remember in late spring in Seoul, after the first infection wave and rules were relaxed, the nightlife scene (and in particular the gay scene) was hit by a couple of clusters which proved very very hard to track as people, did not leave their real names in the register and apparently even muted their phones.

jakob · 2020-10-25 17:15:09

Apologies for sounding a little forthright above but it’s not been a good few days and my patience has worn thin with talk that sounds (to me) even vaguely like it may be trivialising what is for some people a real and serious situation. I’m not saying any of you meant it, it’s just how I reacted.

I wrote a polite, considered but plain-speaking reply but lost it because I took too long. There’s a lot of distracting talk everywhere but when it comes down to it, what I really wanted to say is with all the govt/corporation/faction-bashing/espousing going on, please don’t lose focus of the simple things we can still all do at little cost or penalty to ourselves that help our fellow beings. It’s not about playing into anyone’s hands, just about respect for others. It helps even when others don’t do the same.

colak · 2020-10-25 17:44:05

Your response was very appropriate and it is shared by some of us at least. The situation sucks and instead of trying to fix it, governments are in cahoots with corporations to squeeze what’s left of us even more. C19 is not the cause but just a symptom of our way of life.

zero · 2020-10-25 19:21:59

There’s nothing wrong with being forthright, jakob. I think everyone can see that your heart’s in the right place, and it is very important we don’t lose sight of the fact that it is a dangerous virus, especially for the vulnerable. So taking the precautions is indeed something we should all keep doing.

I disagree with you that debates about stats and underlying agendas are irrelevant. The general public needs to know that all is not what it seems. But here on this forum we are not politicians or big influencers so for all practical purposes, those debates are pretty irrelevant. But I think it’s highly likely that all of us here are taking the precautions because we don’t want to harm anyone and those good habits are probably strongly ingrained now and will remain so for a long time to come, just like crossing the road or driving carefully.

Although recent posts about German-led movements to expose the scam side of the pandemic have made me feel much more positive, I haven’t swallowed the line that the pandemic is over althoug I do agree with most other things they are saying. However, it is still a dangerous virus and you are right to remind us of the basic care and respect we should all have for each other. For me personally, it’s been ingrained in my being for a long time (mmm… except towards politicians and the powers-that-be who should know better and have put themselves in positions of loftiness that invite the rest of us to knock them off their perches :)

colak · 2020-10-26 06:50:19

zero wrote #326564:

Although recent posts about German-led movements to expose the scam side of the pandemic…

From Naomi Klein, March 16, via the intercept.

zero · 2020-12-14 12:00:15

To get to the truth about the pandemic, I think this interview between Peter Breggin (breggin.com) and Peter A McCullough is as good as you’ll get. Both are now applying their vast knowledge and experience towards Covid-19, so you won’t hear conspiracy theories here, just detailed facts and understanding.

Breggin (aka the Conscience of Psychiatry) is possibly the most important person in recent years in reforming the treatment of mental illness, especially with regards to drugs.

McCullough is the world’s leading expert on heart and kidney research and, wrt opinions on covid, considers himself to be more broadly scientifically grounded than any person in the world and certainly more so than anyone in the media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxDIKsB8KfU

Watch the YouTube video

zero · 2021-01-31 08:38:30

Early covid treatment is fact-checked to my satisfaction. Please read it and if you can improve and promote its message, please do so. This information is hidden in plain sight and I believe our governments should have publicly broadcast this info many months ago. They have all this info at their fingertips. I have tried to get their attention and to get media attention but to no avail. I’m just a grain of sand on the beach, totally insignificant to those who trample over us.

It’s a beautiful day here, frosty with a fascinating mackerel sky and gorgeous shades of grey, blue and yellow. There’s always something to appreciate and be thankful for…

michaelkpate · 2021-03-22 21:04:55

Let me be clear: Labs in Wuhan might not have played any role in the origin of the pandemic. But a year later, no source has been found, and the world deserves a thorough, unbiased investigation of all plausible theories that is conducted without fear or favor. – Could an accident have caused COVID-19? Why the Wuhan lab-leak theory shouldn’t be dismissed

I wonder if we are ever going to figure out exactly what happened? I think it would be good if we did so perhaps the chances of a repeat could be minimized.

Destry · 2021-03-23 16:45:21

michaelkpate wrote #329406:

I wonder if we are ever going to figure out exactly what happened?

I think the author’s opinion argues for what only foreign policy makers would care about at this point.

Has any global pandemic ever really been figured out to that level? Plague? AIDS? Spanish Flu? I don’t know.

We probably know more about the start of covid-19 than any pandemic before, and probably enough.

We know the virus is a cross-over (animals to humans), and very likely from bats, at first. We know we need to stop poaching and eating exotic animals. Stop incubating deadly diseases in glass tubes. Stop cutting down jungles and forests that help contain these things. Etc, etc.

And we know we need to confine, not gather en masse in the streets of Miami to party, or Marseilles to carnivale, nor to riot unmasked in country du jour in protest of corrupt elections and coups, both being quite in vogue these days.

We know vaccines need to roll out faster, and not be hoarded by the wealthy West. And we know current and former heads of governments, denying the problem and hindering solutions for the sake of capitalism, need the cement shoes tour of the Mariana Trench.

Yet we can’t seem to do even what we know needs done.

And yet, no matter what we do, there will be worse viruses under conditions impossible to predict. Epidemiologists have said this time and again. It’s just nature, even when human nature is at fault.

Maybe it’s even C19, mutating further into something more problematic, if people don’t take it more seriously. From what I see reported, we are a long way from over this pandemic, and may never be.

And the real scary part, what is less understood by most people, is that bacteria (forget about viruses) are on the verge of immunity against available antibiotics, the best we have, and the world is decades behind antibiotics research. It has the CDC and similar very concerned. They are probably as freaked out as climate scientists, but for different reasons that amount to the same; like seeing the meteor coming with nowhere to run.

michaelkpate · 2021-03-23 17:15:26

Destry wrote #329409:

We know vaccines need to roll out faster, and not be hoarded by the wealthy West. And we know current and former heads of governments, denying the problem and hindering solutions for the sake of capitalism, need the cement shoes tour of the Mariana Trench.

Right now, the AstraZeneca Vaccine works 4 times out of 5.

A fourth COVID-19 vaccine has shown that it can protect people against the worst effects of the disease in a large United States-based trial. Two doses of AstraZeneca’s vaccine were 79 percent effective at preventing people from developing symptomatic COVID-19, according to a press release from the company today. No one in the US trial who received the vaccine was hospitalized for COVID-19, the company said. – AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine 79 percent effective in US study

And only in extremely rare cases kills the patient.

The EMA said the benefits of the vaccine far outweigh the potential risks — and pointed out that the rate of post-vaccine blood clots was actually lower than the expected rate in the general population. Now, a group of German researchers, led by professor Andreas Greinacher at the University of Greifswald, said on Friday in a statement that they believe the AstraZeneca vaccine, in some cases, prompts overactivation of platelets in the blood, which can then cause potentially deadly clots. – European Scientists Zero In On AstraZeneca Blood Clot Link

Hopefully they get the effectiveness up and the deadliness down as new versions are rolled out.

Textpattern CMS

Textpattern CMS support forum

#271 2020-10-24 14:30:18

Re: Corona virus

#272 2020-10-24 16:22:31

Re: Corona virus

#273 2020-10-25 01:28:25

Re: Corona virus

#274 2020-10-25 02:52:34

Re: Corona virus

#275 2020-10-25 05:47:38

Re: Corona virus

#276 2020-10-25 08:26:13

Re: Corona virus

colak wrote #326553:

#277 2020-10-25 17:15:09

Re: Corona virus

#278 2020-10-25 17:44:05

Re: Corona virus

#279 2020-10-25 19:21:59

Re: Corona virus

#280 2020-10-26 06:50:19

Re: Corona virus

zero wrote #326564:

#281 2020-12-14 12:00:15

Re: Corona virus

#282 2021-01-31 08:38:30

Re: Corona virus

#283 2021-03-22 21:04:55

Re: Corona virus

#284 2021-03-23 16:45:21

Re: Corona virus

michaelkpate wrote #329406:

#285 2021-03-23 17:15:26

Re: Corona virus

Destry wrote #329409:

Board footer