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#1 2020-06-27 07:22:37

colak
Admin
From: Cyprus
Registered: 2004-11-20
Posts: 8,302
Website

Outgrow links tab

Destry’s thread may actually be a good one for radically rethinking txp. One of the issues we have is that Links are not searchable from the front end. They are also very limited regarding the number of custom fields. Headless Pageless sections can bring this content in the write pane, make it searchable, and all we will need to worry about improving is two things.

  1. Unlimited custom fields (which I understand that they are currently under development)
  2. Section specific custom fields that only appear when a section is selected. jquery in combination with display:none/block css, could be our friend for this one, and it will help with the decluttering of the write tab.
    • Can be achieved by adding a back-end page where CFs can be allocated to sections
  • Disadvantages
    • Backward compatibility
    • javascript dependencies for decluttering the CFs in the write tab
    • Links in categories
    • ids of links v ids in articles.
      • ie: I’m not sure how <txp:link id="##" /> can be migrated automatically
    • The articles may become too many. ie in the NeMe site we have about 1100 link entries
  • Advantages
    • Fewer tags as all the link tags can be deleted from the code
      • hence smaller txp footprint
    • we can use the existing article and CF ones
    • Searchable from the front end
  • Possible solutions to problems
    • Stage 1: A migration script which can create CFs on the fly and duplicate that info to the articles tab
      • Addition of a page where CFs can be allocated to sections
    • Stage 2: After a couple few of decimal versions, which will allow people to change their tags, the link tags are deleted.

Note: This is just an idea for discussion. I’m sure that I inadvertently left things out.

Last edited by colak (2020-06-27 07:37:09)


Yiannis
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#2 2020-06-27 07:36:42

Bloke
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From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 9,795
Website

Re: Outgrow links tab

Interesting but I’m not intending to remove Links from Textpattern. I use them extensively for content that I pull into other articles that is linky in nature and I don’t want to be searchable, necessarily. e.g. lists of contributors to a site, or colophon information. Such lists may or may not have web endpoints, and having built in capability to take a URL (or not) without explicitly defining a custom field is handy. Convention over configuration.

In fact, I’m thinking of augmenting links (and files) to accept images so they can be more broadly useful. It’s not much hardship to add another field like the article image and seems useful.

Combined with unlimited custom fields on all content types (including Sections, yes), this should breathe new life into the Links panel for creative uses.

By all means, if you want to migrate Links to articles, just write a quick bit of SQL to copy them over, then you can empty out the Links at your leisure. But I don’t envision removing Links from core any time soon.


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#3 2020-06-27 07:44:41

colak
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From: Cyprus
Registered: 2004-11-20
Posts: 8,302
Website

Re: Outgrow links tab

Bloke wrote #324042:

Interesting but I’m not intending to remove Links from Textpattern. I use them extensively for content that I pull into other articles that is linky in nature and I don’t want to be searchable, necessarily. e.g. lists of contributors to a site, or colophon information. Such lists may or may not have web endpoints, and having built in capability to take a URL (or not) without explicitly defining a custom field is handy. Convention over configuration.

The beauty of pageless sections is that they can be searchable or not.

In fact, I’m thinking of augmenting links (and files) to accept images so they can be more broadly useful. It’s not much hardship to add another field like the article image and seems useful.

Combined with unlimited custom fields on all content types, this should breathe new life into the Links panel for creative uses.

That is an excellent idea! As I wrote, I started this thread for discussion purposes.

BTW what do you think of adding a “page where CFs can be allocated to sections”?


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#4 2020-06-27 08:19:58

Bloke
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From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 9,795
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Re: Outgrow links tab

colak wrote #324043:

The beauty of pageless sections is that they can be searchable or not.

True.

what do you think of adding a “page where CFs can be allocated to sections”?

See minor amendments to my post I made as you were writing your reply (sorry). Section custom fields are already possible, I just need to enable them in the CF branch. I’ve only enabled article CFs right now, since they’re the most complicated. The rest are super simple to add in comparison. Just a bit of UI in each panel we want to support them and a save routine. Job done.

EDIT: or do you mean a way to map sections to a set of article CFs? That’s already possible in a way because CFs support ‘grouping’ so you could use that however you wish. Core, however, does nothing with that information beyond permitting you to define groups and assign them. It’s up to you / plugins how you use that on, say, the Write panel to auto switch fields on and off when the Section dropdown is altered.

Last edited by Bloke (2020-06-27 08:22:16)


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#5 2020-06-27 08:46:14

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 3,940
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Re: Outgrow links tab

I secretly hope that with articles cf extra flexibility all other content types (links, etc) will be de facto abandoned by users.

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#6 2020-06-27 09:20:32

phiw13
Plugin Author
From: Japan
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 2,146
Website

Re: Outgrow links tab

etc wrote #324045:

I secretly hope that with articles cf extra flexibility all other content types (links, etc) will be de facto abandoned by users.

Why would you want that? I want to have that separation in order to build chaos without being tied to the article concept.

–^–^–

The custom field branch is something I am patiently (not) waiting for in order to be able to add custom fields to images and make it actually useful for something other than vanity projects (same for files and links to a minor extend).


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#7 2020-06-27 10:43:39

colak
Admin
From: Cyprus
Registered: 2004-11-20
Posts: 8,302
Website

Re: Outgrow links tab

Bloke wrote #324044:

True.

See minor amendments to my post I made as you were writing your reply (sorry). Section custom fields are already possible, I just need to enable them in the CF branch. I’ve only enabled article CFs right now, since they’re the most complicated. The rest are super simple to add in comparison. Just a bit of UI in each panel we want to support them and a save routine. Job done.

This is an example of how I am currently using CFs in the NeMe site

Custom fields

CF# CF name Sections used how
1 Dates Projects, and Blog date of event or deadline
2 img2 Projects and Blog random thumbnail on the top of individual projects or small image that appears in the blog articles
3 venue Projects, Blog and Texts In Projects and Blog contains the name of the venue, in Texts it contains link ids of authors
4 venues Projects This is a legacy CF as I wanted to have the plural of venue. Contains the names of other venues
5 pubs Projects and Texts and About In projects and About, it contains the image ids of NeMe publications. In Texts it contains an image id of a book by the author of the text
6 pubs_by_others Projects and About In projects it contains image ids of publications by others about the whole or part of the project. In about, it contains the aforementioned image ids plus publications by others who mention NeMe
7 img_main Projects, Blog In individual Projects it contains the image ids of the slide show on the top. In Blog it contains a banner image
8 multi_event_pubs Projects contains image ids of publications which span a number of events and articles
9 Type Blog Used to define if this is arts news or an arts call
10 C10 projects used to help with the deep url structure

My CFs are admittedly a mess and there are two reasons for that

  1. Legacy CF names from the early txp days
  2. I’ve been trying to achieve functionality using native tags and avoiding plugins

Core, however, does nothing with that information beyond permitting you to define groups and assign them.

Hmmm Is this documented? In combination with unlimited CFs, it will save many of us some of the naming and section specific issues.


Yiannis
——————————
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I do my best editing after I click on the submit button.

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#8 2020-06-27 12:07:38

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 9,795
Website

Re: Outgrow links tab

colak wrote #324050:

Hmmm Is this [grouping] documented?

Not until the CF branch lands in core officially. It’s a feature of unlimited custom fields, not of today’s fields.


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#9 2020-06-27 12:36:23

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 3,940
Website

Re: Outgrow links tab

phiw13 wrote #324046:

Why would you want that? I want to have that separation in order to build chaos without being tied to the article concept.

–^–^–

The custom field branch is something I am patiently (not) waiting for in order to be able to add custom fields to images and make it actually useful for something other than vanity projects (same for files and links to a minor extend).

I don’t see any conceptual difference between articles, links, images (not the physical ones) and other content entities. We can differentiate them on the surface, but internally I would turn everything into ‘articles’ with customizable fields collections. This would avoid much code duplication.

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#10 2020-06-27 15:02:08

maverick
Member
From: Southeastern Michigan, USA
Registered: 2005-01-14
Posts: 975
Website

Re: Outgrow links tab

etc wrote #324054:

We can differentiate them on the surface, but internally I would turn everything into ‘articles’ with customizable fields collections. This would avoid much code duplication.

I’m trying to wrap my head around some of this. It’s been a while since I read up on the direction of CFs development. It sounds like one possible application for grouping of CFs would essentially be setting content types. Is the accurate or is there another plan for that?

Since colak posed this as a reimagining discussion:

If so, wouldn’t it be possible to separate the groups (content types) for management in their own tabs on the admin side? Likely by plugin? (Or – still dreaming LOL – my long held wish for a built-in admin side tab builder. smd_tabber on steriods :-) ).

Thinking along the plug-in line, it might then make sense to have developer maintained admin tab plugins for the original/core content types like images & links. If you never use them – no tab. If you do – no problem. One click installs. Perhaps even in theory the article tab could become a plugin for those who want to use Textpattern in creative ways other than publishing articles.

Bonus: if someone wants a custom interface on the tab for one of the legacy types – article/image/link – it becomes easy problem.

That said – CFs, whatever their form UX-wise – are going to be fun :D

Last edited by maverick (2020-06-27 15:03:33)

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