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Destry · 2019-09-17 07:36:11

…albeit for a limited time only. Still, the climate crisis is the single biggest issue facing humanity, and the report from the UN later this month is going to be bad, you can be sure, so it’s nice to see news media doing a little more than the usual nothing for a change. Check out their partners list!

Now, if they would only use that collective power to shit-can Facebook and all adtech, I would really be impressed.

colak · 2019-09-17 17:49:48

Thanks for sharing Destry, great find.

Destry · 2019-09-17 18:17:34

Yeah, I was surprised by it.

A relevant and related piece out of the Guardian.

I think the real question, dispensing with the pointless geographical finger-pointing, is just, Can the world save itself? To which I’m very pessimistic (as the article would then imply), as is the UN secretary general (Guterres), I believe, and most scientists in the world that aren’t on big oil’s payroll.

The problem isn’t just oil, though. It’s so many, many, many more things about human society all combined. A hot earth is just the last rubber band on the watermelon.

michaelkpate · 2019-09-17 21:13:02

Destry wrote #319309:

A relevant and related piece out of the Guardian.

I think the author is pretty confused. The US is only bound by treaties that are ratified by the Senate, which the Paris Agreement never was. Withdrawing from it was only pro forma because we were never actually in it.

Also:

Even if U.S., China, the European Union and India increased their contributions to limit emissions, the rest of the world would need to drop to virtually zero emissions by 2030 in order for the planet to reach its goal of limiting the increase in temperature from pre-industrial times to 1.5 degrees Celsius, according to the new study. – New studies highlight challenge of meeting Paris Agreement climate goals

Seeing as how there are several hundred million people in India only now getting connected to the electrical grid, that seems unlikely.

Destry · 2019-09-18 13:54:25

michaelkpate wrote #319310:

I think the author is pretty confused.

I think he’s intentionally inaccurate to be biting (or the editors would have surely fixed it), but I could be wrong. Most readers probably won’t blame him for it, in any case, except those who would also say things like ‘not all men’.

More importantly…

The US is only bound by treaties that are ratified by the Senate, which the Paris Agreement never was. Withdrawing from it was only pro forma because we were never actually in it.

Wholly immaterial apples and oranges, since the UN has no resource to penalize a country whether or not it legally locked in or backed out. As most of the world probably sees it, the US (among a few other countries, but the US especially) certainly does deserve punishment when it comes to climate, in principle.

The most that can be done, however, and probably the best thing anyway, as Alba (Guterres’s special envoy for the upcoming summit), was quoted as saying:

‘As in many other parts of international law . . . the enforcement rests in the follow-up and the “name and shame” role of civil society – to expose that a country is not complying with what they’ve [theatrically] committed to. The media plays an important role there, and so do activists.”

Is it possible to name and shame the US any more effectively than what’s been done already the last three years? Both the Trump administration and Facebook seem equally immune. Money is a formidable shield against justice and moral bearing, apparently.

Climate agreements are no more than a show of good faith, and the US, regardless of the loopholes it always makes for itself, has proven time and again that its good faith participation means zilch, even under better presidents than the current turd. I can imagine the frustration Guterres must feel in his position, as well all those leaders whose nations are sinking first.

Seeing as how there are several hundred million people in India only now getting connected to the electrical grid, that seems unlikely.

No argument there. I could give a long list of reasons why it’s unlikely society saves the world, with or without the US. But then you already know I think we’re done for.

Global human society is at its glorious pinnacle right now. Take a good look around and enjoy it. For the next 20 years, we’re the roller coaster inching over the apex of the highest peak. Thereafter the frightening descent comes swiftly, followed by a seemingly endless series of violent twists and turns, compliments of mother nature, until only a few stalwart riders are left in their seats… To see the coaster’s track is missing rails at the end.

Speaking of India, I saw a special report the other night about how Mumbai is getting so big, pushing far out into the dwindling critical habitat of wild animals, that toddlers are reportedly carried off in the night by leopards, in addition to many dogs, which are rapidly becoming the leopard’s favorite snack due to the dwindling of its normal prey species. Leopards will go quite deep into a village to nab a dog, in fact, as a few home-surveillance videos floating around will prove. They’re broadening their menu, apparently, as they acclimate to human presence. The problem is not just in India, though, it happens everywhere humans encroach deeper into dwindling habitats. Of course, we’ll kill all the evil leopards for being leopards — along with the other big cats and bears and gorillas and such. They don’t call it the Anthropocene for nothing.

colak · 2019-09-18 19:24:39

Ok, I’m back:)

The problems are huge and I am afraid that I also share Destry’s pessimism. I am however often reminded by many of the people our organisation collaborates with, that pessimism does not help. Researching, presenting, and demonstrating, viable alternatives does. I believe that our generation f***ed up big, and I also feel that (generally) those slightly younger than me are basically unable to think of environmental, political, or social problems, mostly trying instead, to make money. The positive thing, is that there seems to be an increase of consciousness by the younger, now in their teens, 20 and 30 something age groups who are working on radical solutions for subjects like our relationships with the environment, privacy, economic systems, etc. This actually gives me strength as, their turn to steer this planet will come … if of course we all, individually, allow those ideas to become our norm before we destroy everything.

Destry · 2019-09-19 09:19:37

colak wrote #319322:

I am however often reminded by many of the people our organisation collaborates with, that pessimism does not help. Researching, presenting, and demonstrating, viable alternatives does.

I’ll admit pessimism can be a downer (though it doesn’t have to be, and shouldn’t be), especially to those who prescribe to hope. (Hoping is about as useful as praying). But I disagree that it’s not useful. It’s only not useful to the majority of people who still think society will figure it out, or that it’s even not already too late.

And that’s the difference: it is too late.

The IPCC conservatively estimates we have around 10-15 years tops before we cross a slippery-slope threshold with CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere, thus global mean temperature. And as we’ve seen with UN reports leading up to the most recent one, their estimates are always conservative; usually underestimating the severity each time and admitting as much. This is why they are increasingly adopting a more serious tone in their reports (though not serious enough in my opinion).

If that wasn’t alarming enough, scientists have also been telling the world—though it’s too often suppressed by PR agents, neoliberals, and other privileged hopefuls—that even if we stopped burning all fossil energy yesterday, carbon loading and temperature will still increase past threshold levels due to massive-scale environmental processes already in motion, like Greenland and polar ice melting, defrosting of the so-called ‘permafrost’ zones, warming oceans, and so on. In other words, there’s a double-whammy of carbon loading happening now because of feedback loops, and that latent loading by itself will eventually push us over the parabola, as it were.

This does not yet mean humans are destined for extinction ‘by the end of the century’, as we sometimes here (though it’s possible if we continue to climb to 3°C+ in the coming decades), but it does mean society as we know it is going to change, and not for the better. It’s already changing and the evidence is clear on the news every day. We’re going to start backsliding soon. That’s why I say take a good look around, because we will not, in fact, become a shiny star-faring society despite the fantasies of a few billionaires. This is the best it gets. It’s a bitter kind of luck to be alive at this point in human history, to see the apex.

The only thing we can do now is lessen the blow. We can’t avoid what’s coming, but we must accept that it is, and adapt to it, quickly. And this, my esteemed friends, is why it’s very important to hear the pessimists of the world; to be shaking out of our stupors and false hopes about business as usual.

Further, being pessimistic about climate and the state of society does not mean one is unconcerned, or sitting around idle doing nothing about it. The first thing to understand, however, is that we (as individuals) can’t lessen the blow if our world governments and global corporations don’t change. They are the problem. Period. Beyond that, anything we do, is for our own integrity in face of the crisis—ethically, emotionally, and spiritually. We can’t change the world, but we can change ourselves and rest in peace knowing we did.

I am a pessimist, yes, but I am very concerned about the environment. I’ve been in tune with it since a child, which lead to studying environmental science and working at NOAA. I live a low-impact lifestyle and have all my life (I’ve not owned a car for about 25 years, as one example, though that may have to change soon, unfortunately, for child/location/hauling reasons, so I’m now at some necessary crossroads about what type of vehicle).

I’ve been interacting for a while now with other pessimists like me in the fediverse who are nevertheless some of the most environmentally-conscious, low-impact living people I’m socially aware of. They get it. They’re doing their part. They’re getting ready, mentally and physically. Most importantly, they’re dealing with the difficult task of getting their children ready (as I am), who will bear more of the burden later. I’m not talking about survivalists, but people who know that civil order, resource conservation/reuse, self-sufficiency, collaboration, and thinking ‘locally’ (versus the disease of globalism) is essential. Local is the future. That reality will hit home when supply chains break and we can’t fly anymore.

But everyone must find their own path in dealing with the crisis. You don’t need Extinction Rebellion, 365.org, Fridays for Future, or any other do-good initiative taking advantage of the crisis to grow their brand and reach on Facebook. You can do good for your local community, and be at peace with the greater crisis, by simply changing yourself and making it your lifestyle, as it should be anyway. Frankly, marching in the streets every September 20th isn’t going to change climate. But if it makes an individual feel better—as part of finding their path—and gets them one step closer to accepting the eventuality and adapting to it, then it’s good. And, in any case, politicians and global corporations should know from a bunch of angry sign-bearers that they do suck, even if it won’t make a difference.

This just occurs to me as I write this… Being ‘pessimistic about climate’ isn’t even an accurate notion anymore. We are now at the point where the opposite is true: if you’re hopeful about the state of climate and society, then you’re the pessimist holding us back from dealing with the more difficult future that’s coming. I’ll say it again, we can not and will not maintain society as we know it. It’s impossible. We need to start thinking and adapting accordingly. Find ways to downgrade, if you will, in a safe and orderly manner. (Reducing human population is going to be essential, and it will happen, whether controlled by us or sweepingly by nature itself.)

Granted, this might not be the forum to have such conversations (in person is better). On the other hand, climate is the biggest issue facing humanity and the rest of life on Earth. Sequestering pessimism to ‘appropriate’ channels is just more turning the cheek and hoping the problem goes away. I believe talking about the crisis with everyone you know, whenever you can, and getting ready for it, is one of the best things we can do right now as individuals. At the same time, there are many ways to conserve, make, reuse, repair, act locally, and so on—in general giving capitalism/globalism the finger—and being happy with that. Being a climate/society pessimist is the best thing you can be right now.

(Btw, Paul Kingsnorth, founder of the Dark Mountain Project, and Jem Bendell, founder of Deep Adaptation, to name just two of many environmentally-concerned personalities, are extremely pessimistic about the future, and I can’t recommend their material enough.)

colak · 2019-09-19 09:53:29

Destry wrote #319325:

And that’s the difference: it is too late.

The IPCC conservatively estimates we have around 10-15 years tops before we cross a slippery-slope threshold with CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere, thus global mean temperature. And as we’ve seen with UN reports leading up to the most recent one, their estimates are always conservative; usually underestimating the severity each time and admitting as much. This is why they are increasingly adopting a more serious tone in their reports (though not serious enough in my opinion).

Fully aware and agree! When you get some time do download and read the intro, which I co-wrote. The book is unfortunately currently out of print.

Destry · 2019-09-19 14:29:28

colak wrote #319326:

…download and read the intro I co-wrote.

Dang. I was going to say, send me a signed copy. ;)

Nice intro. A densely-packed summary of the hellish times.

colak · 2019-09-19 17:58:09

Destry wrote #319331:

Dang. I was going to say, send me a signed copy. ;)

Nice intro. A densely-packed summary of the hellish times.

you have mail.

phiw13 · 2019-09-20 07:42:42

colak wrote #319326:

Fully aware and agree! When you get some time do download and read the intro, which I co-wrote. The book is unfortunately currently out of print.

Yiannis – sounds interesting, based on speed reading through the intro. Downloaded the whole thing in epub for further reading. Thanks for the pointer.

colak · 2019-09-21 04:47:28

phiw13 wrote #319335:

Yiannis – sounds interesting, based on speed reading through the intro. Downloaded the whole thing in epub for further reading. Thanks for the pointer.

Enjoy. It has some texts there which are excellent.

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