Websites using TXP being updated by clients - your opinion?

flamenco · 2009-01-27 18:52:12

Hello!
I’m very intrigued by TXP, and am trying to learn it. I’m very slowly getting my head around its concepts (and feeling like a dummy); it doesn’t work like the other systems I use. I have not passed my usual CMS test, which is to convert my own dirt-simple site. With some CMS systems, I’ve managed to do this in an hour or two, including all the styling.

I normally would run, but I’m hanging in there, because I keep getting glimpses of its power and flexibility. I even bought the book, so I’m not giving up. I’m gradually grasping Sections, Categories, forms (a little), and so on. :) I’m also encouraged by the friendliness of the community, and the fact that TXP has been around a long time.

Learning Textile has been the easy part for me. That leads to my main question…

—-How much success have you had handing a TXP site to a client, so they can make their own subsequent content updates? Typically my clients want a WYSIWYG editor, and have zero ability to handle tags and the like.

—-Do they clearly understand how to enter or edit some content? Or do they need training?

—-I’m dead slow at figuring out how to put things together, even with the book. I normally like to learn hands-on. I’m wondering if maybe I should find a theme that looks more like my site than the minimal stuff that comes with TXP, installing that, and then dissecting that to learn.

Thanks very much!

redbot · 2009-01-27 21:17:03

If your clients want a WYSIWYG editor there is the hak_tinymce plugin.

masa · 2009-01-27 21:19:26

flamenco wrote:

—-How much success have you had handing a TXP site to a client, so they can make their own subsequent content updates? Typically my clients want a WYSIWYG editor, and have zero ability to handle tags and the like.

It depends. Usually I try to get them started with Textile. Some of them get the hang of it very quickly, realising they can mark up text as they type along. Others that are perhaps more accustomed to MS Word and the likes are often more comfortable with a visual editor such as hak_tinymce

Both are options in Textpattern. In general, if they mostly edit textual content, they’ll be fine with Textile.

—-Do they clearly understand how to enter or edit some content? Or do they need training?

A bit of initial personal training is definitely necessary in my experience. I explain and show them where their content – mostly articles, images and links – is located in the backend and how to edit/add new stuff.

I try to find out what they want to do on a regular basis and then provide them with short, task-based tutorials in PDF form consisting of annotated screen snapshots.

—-I’m dead slow at figuring out how to put things together, even with the book. I normally like to learn hands-on. I’m wondering if maybe I should find a theme that looks more like my site than the minimal stuff that comes with TXP, installing that, and then dissecting that to learn.

What tools are you familiar with?

There’s no need to resort to a theme – you can easily create a template from scratch in any tool you prefer substituting mock-up content for what later will be replaced by dynamic content in Textpattern – some here use Dreamweaver, Coda etc.

flamenco · 2009-01-27 21:43:21

Thanks for the info!

Ah, good old Tiny! That one’s everywhere, and I should have assumed TXP would have it. (you can tell I’m new) So that’s an excellent selling point to my, um, intellectually-challenged clients!!! :)

As to tools… I constantly create templates any number of ways, and plug variables and code into them, so that’s not an issue at all. I’m a hardcore CSS/HTML guy. I also am decent at PHP.

It’s the organization of things that I don’t get. I stuck my 6 pages into Content. I wanted one to be “Home” at the site root, and the rest to be available in the menu. Preposterously simple. That didn’t take place because Articles become “home” in the order they’re published, just like a blog.

Then I thought, oh, I’ll just make 6 sections, including a “Home”, and stick each content page in its section. That sort of worked, but now my menu’s redundant – so when I click on “Home”, I get a “Home” under “Home” because (I think) it’s showing the Section and the Doc name under it, both of which are “Home”. So maybe I just need to change my menu call parms. I’m almost there, in any case. If someone wants to show me the error of my ways, cool.

This is all totally routine to all of you, I’m sure. But TXP is opaque at first to us newbies, even ones who thrive on code. It’s a good thing all you smarter people are here to answer questions! And hey, it could be a lot tougher – this summer I spent several weeks fighting with Smarty templates in XCart, an experience I hope to never duplicate, even though I finally got it working in a frou frou design. ;)

Thanks again!

masa · 2009-01-27 21:59:36

You might also want to check out Textpattern Semantics

ultramega · 2009-01-27 22:36:37

I felt little bit same like you when started to use TXP, but soon I realized the system is very flexible when it comes with layout, easy-to-do many kind functions just with built in tags (txp_if_this and txp_if_that…). And all for whom I have built sites have liked the clear way to present things in admin.

I personally like Jukka’s textile editor more than Tiny, it is nice and clean :) And it is easy to configure so that just needed tags are visible in admin (think about your long designed typography…) And this is nice one too for longer texts.

For your question, first check in sections admin, which sections are marked to be in front-page. When article belonging a section which is marked to be “on front-page” is published, it will be shown on front page, period. If you for example don’t want your “About Us” section’s articles to be visible on front page, then remove that selection from content>sections admin.

Normally I do Home = root | and I select which articles I want to show there. Then restrict other sections’ posts to be visible only on their own pages. I also do a one template / section as it does some locigal sense for me. You could also use just one page template for all sections using txp:if_section…, but I have never liked that idea. By using forms, which are like includes, I can change all repeated things from one place. Like navigation, footer, header. But with forms you also put content in page templates. They are the last part which affect articles’ outfit when rendering on browser. When using “txp:article” tag in page template, it defaults to “default” form when showing the article. You can change the form used in the article tag, or make changes to the form (“default”) itself.

This really is very kind and helpful community, which is one thing why I like TXP a lot. So hopefully this helps you at least a little bit.

johnstephens · 2009-01-28 01:50:51

I too read the book and dove right in. I didn’t experience acute problems right away, but it took me a while to understand Textpattern’s logic. Tim Van Damme’s demo had a big impact toward bringing Textpattern into focus for me.

Like him, I use only one page for most of my designs (not counting error handling and other contingency plans), and that page is light and focused at 18 lines of code. As you might guess, I use forms very liberally. Like Van Damme says in the above-mentioned article, Textpattern gives you multiple ways to solve the same problem.

A few months ago, a friend was having trouble figuring Textpattern out— here’s the message I sent him that cleared it all up.

I just created this metaphor that always helps me whenever I get confused about Textpattern:

The sections tab is like a friendly usher directing guests to the right page.

The page is like the film projector, generating a seamless, cohesive presentation out of the disparate forms and article content that speed by the lens.

The form is like a magical volcano hidden in a secret planet full of gypsies.

I hope this helps!

joebaich · 2009-01-28 04:56:34

flamenco wrote:

Learning Textile has been the easy part for me. That leads to my main question…

—-How much success have you had handing a TXP site to a client, so they can make their own subsequent content updates? Typically my clients want a WYSIWYG editor, and have zero ability to handle tags and the like.

—-Do they clearly understand how to enter or edit some content? Or do they need training?

I agree with the notion expressed by others in this thread that TXP training is required, but it isn’t difficult to do, especially if you prepare a lesson plan beforehand rather than trying to cuff it. I provide training as part of our “package” and factor in the cost to our proposals. I find that clients appreciate that attention to detail. You will find that many of the more “mature” amongst those who need the training will take to Textile very quickly because it isn’t so different in concept from the first word processor they used, called Wordstar, and its dot commands. The end user’s guide here is not up to date but provides a good starting point to help you set up your training. It’s feasible to conduct the TXP training over Skype.

flamenco · 2009-01-28 05:14:26

Wow, everybody, these are great ideas. What a team! It’s nice not to be alone with this. :)

I like the visual metaphors, John’s one, and the Semantics thing. Those make it all more obvious. So I’ll get my new site going pretty soon.

The truth is, I usually pick things up very quickly, so when I slow down, even a little, I get irked. :)

Disclosure: most of my work is with MODx and Wordpress. I also like Website Baker, but they’re having a tiff, and look like they’re dividing into forks. I had also liked CMSMadeSimple at first, but the memory requirements were excessive, some bugs were bugging me, and they have one forum overseer/developer who has a personality like Benito Mussolini. :)

You All Rule!

masa · 2009-01-28 19:34:40

And here’s yet another one that helped me in the beginning…
Understanding Textpattern Building Blocks

Also recommended Textpattern’s FAQ and especially the Common “How Do I?” questions

After working my way through these resources 95% of my questions were answered.

nabrown78 · 2009-01-28 20:46:14

Great question flamenco.

I have experienced a range of client reactions – from quickly getting used to Textile and not having much trouble, to eventually asking the site be rebuilt in Wordpress because TXP was too difficult to learn as a blogging platform.

I think Textpattern definitely requires some training on the client’s part, and I usually provide some screencasts tailored specifically to their site (I also have some more generic ones on my blog for them – http://www.norabrowndesign.com/blog/article/screencasts/).

I may be unaware of some plugins that would help with the following problems, but they are things that have come up with clients:

Having to use the posted date to sort articles
Lack of image sorting system
Not being able to rearrange the order of sections. This usually means that I create the main navigation somewhat by hand instead of just outputting a section list.

Good luck!

Bloke · 2009-01-28 21:04:28

Indeed, a very good question.

And — at the risk of information overload — if you require any further info on how things are structured / fit together on a TXP site, there’s always the ol’ faithful Textbook. It also contains the tag reference so — once you get your head round them — you can tweak your txp tags to perfection.

With regards handover I’ve had similar experiences to nabrown78. Some love it, some don’t and want it to behave like *shudder* Dreamweaver or *double shudder* Micro$oft BluntRage.

For those that don’t like the functionality out of the box — as nora says — there are usually plugins that can help. For example, if a client really hates the way you have to jump between the Image and Article tabs to add an image to an article, there’s lam_image_uploader. For sorting articles in arbitrary orders: stm_article_order. Multiple image upload: EBL_upload. And if you really can’t find one that does the job, you can request it and see what happens. Some of us plugin monkeys like a good challenge :-)

Hope you stick with us. Once the learning curve is out of the way, you probably won’t be able to put TXP down.

Last edited by Bloke (2009-01-28 21:07:45)

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#1 2009-01-27 18:52:12

Websites using TXP being updated by clients - your opinion?

#2 2009-01-27 21:17:03

Re: Websites using TXP being updated by clients - your opinion?

#3 2009-01-27 21:19:26

Re: Websites using TXP being updated by clients - your opinion?

#4 2009-01-27 21:43:21

Re: Websites using TXP being updated by clients - your opinion?

#5 2009-01-27 21:59:36

Re: Websites using TXP being updated by clients - your opinion?

#6 2009-01-27 22:36:37

Re: Websites using TXP being updated by clients - your opinion?

#7 2009-01-28 01:50:51

Re: Websites using TXP being updated by clients - your opinion?

#8 2009-01-28 04:56:34

Re: Websites using TXP being updated by clients - your opinion?

#9 2009-01-28 05:14:26

Re: Websites using TXP being updated by clients - your opinion?

#10 2009-01-28 19:34:40

Re: Websites using TXP being updated by clients - your opinion?

#11 2009-01-28 20:46:14

Re: Websites using TXP being updated by clients - your opinion?

#12 2009-01-28 21:04:28

Re: Websites using TXP being updated by clients - your opinion?

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