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[contrib] TXP Template distribution methodology
Following on from the post in this thread, I’d like to canvas opinions as to best practice for TXP template package distribution from a user perspective.
Stuart from Textgarden is now distributing packaged templates using the hcg_templates plugin, which allows a user to choose between templates conveniently stored in a _templates folder in the root folder.
What is the opinion here as to the best method of distribution? The traditional way of copy-paste forms/pages/styles, or import the package and use hcg_templates?
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Re: [contrib] TXP Template distribution methodology
It’s always been my impression that people who use themes do so because:
- They like rearranging their bedroom a lot,
- they don’t know how to roll one of their own (or don’t have the time), or
- both.
With that in mind, no matter how you look at it (like with anything), simplicity is the rule. I’ve never used hcg_templates, but if it makes it easier for theme users to use themes (less mouse clicks at the very least), then it’s probably the direction to go. Is there room for improvement? Probably that too.
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Re: [contrib] TXP Template distribution methodology
hcg_templates gets my vote. I haven’t gotten too deep into actually theming with it in mind, but I do use it to keep back-ups of old site designs. It’s a great tool in case you want to get rid of old forms and page templates, and you want to save them for posterity’s sake.
I would be interested to get someone’s take on actually using it in practice — downloading and installing a theme. Does it actually work? Creating a theme is easy enough — just some FTP fixin’ and a couple clicks and its done.
Themes are one of Textpattern cruxes — falls waaaaay behind Wordpress in this regard. Part of me wants to say “if you need a theme, then you shouldn’t use Txp.” But that turns a nose up at a lot of would-be Txp users. hcg_templates is a good solution to fill this gap. Otherwise, the user has to go through this laborious walk through of copying and pasting forms. Anyone who would want a theme doesn’t want to work, they just want the design.
Txp admin themes | dropshado.ws – a blog for design noobs like me
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Re: [contrib] TXP Template distribution methodology
We should not ignore themes, to do so would be detrimental, nor should we “sniff” at those who want to use them as it suggests that we consider ourselves “above” them in some way. Not good for the “PR” department.
My own view is that learning TXP is easier than learning WP, CSS and XHTML, and trying to learn the last 2 whilst getting your head around TXP is one hell of a steep learning curve likely to put many potential new users off the idea of even trying TXP in the first place.
Whilst TXP is an extremely flexible CMS ideally suited to the “web designer” types amongst us it should not be marketed as purely for them. I have been involved with site-owners who love the simplicity of adding/editing articles and uploading images/files with TXP but have no CSS/XHTML skills and don’t really want to get involved in that side of things. Admin-side plug-ins such as image pickers and textile tag injectors make things even easier so we should be encouraging these people, not trying to put them off. We should not be putting over the idea that somehow TXP is an elitist application. I should also point out that it is one of, if not THE easiest CMS to install.
Up to now the fact that we have a small and somewhat knowledgeable user-base has been advantageous from the point-of-view of testing and debugging updates but I think the advent of 4.0.7 has pushed TXP to new heights of flexibility and we should now concentrate our efforts on widening the user-base and encouraging new users with little or no coding abilities. Themes help these people and anything that makes themeing easier has to be seen as advantageous.
Of course it would be great if TXP had built-in themeing but it doesn’t and isn’t likely to have it for some time to come. In the mean while hcg_templates is a good stop-gap. Whether it can be improved upon I’ve no idea. I’m no plug-in developer despite what it says over there on the left.
Something that could be improved upon is trying to ensure that all available themes are listed on Textgarden. Having a central repository for ALL themes has to be the way to go, including admin themes though they aren’t the subject of this thread.
Stuart
In a Time of Universal Deceit
Telling the Truth is Revolutionary.
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Re: [contrib] TXP Template distribution methodology
The fact is, even if you sniff at using a theme, they are very popular. My latest theme was announced on 22nd December, and in the short time since then has already been downloaded 110 times.
I used hcg_templates for this release, mainly because Stuart (thebombsite) is starting to the do the same at the official themes site that he runs over at the Text Garden.
Personally, I found setting up the site for export with hcg_templates to be a pain, but the end result for the user would be simple and easy. Not dramatically easier than copy/paste, but definitely easier.
Not every user is experienced. I totally agree with Stuart about not putting inexperienced users off, attracting a new user base and having a central repository for themes. I personally think it should be at themes.textpattern.com or similar, but that’s for the devs and Stuart to determine.
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Re: [contrib] TXP Template distribution methodology
More the devs than me, or maybe even Dean. I’m not sure who has overall control of the sites these days.
And oddly the same download quantity for “TXP Falling Away” though a couple of weeks earlier.
If you have a look at the “Browse by Popularity” link in the sidebar you can get an idea of how many downloads there have been, some 60,000, and that only covers those downloads available directly from Textgarden. There must be loads more for the Textplates competition entries which account for some two thirds of the available themes.
Last edited by thebombsite (2009-01-06 16:17:34)
Stuart
In a Time of Universal Deceit
Telling the Truth is Revolutionary.
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Re: [contrib] TXP Template distribution methodology
I use hcg_templates not only for pre-made themes, but to develop all my sites’ themes externally (I’d much rather code in an external app than within txp).
hcg_templates seems the best way so far to package/distribute themes. I do think it beats copy/paste by a long shot.
I’d be very happy to see it as the standard distribution format.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~| monolinea.com | pixilate.com | istockphoto.com/kemie |~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Re: [contrib] TXP Template distribution methodology
@Stuart: I think everyone would agree with your post #4 100% (I certainly do), and I can understand your position, as it is with TxG and all, but there shouldn’t be any need for anyone to jump to the defensive about themes. Nobody in this thread, anyway, made any such suggestion that themes are not important or that one is above them. If anything, it’s to the contrary. Certainly nobody used the words “sniff”, “above” or “PR” until you did. Conversation (or its meandering course) isn’t negative until someone tries to spin it that way. I’m just saying. I wouldn’t be saying anything now at all except I’m one of the two people commenting prior to your post and I want to make sure my position is clear.
(I do think themes, here or anywhere else, impact the business opportunities of freelance designers — though providing one or two great ones can also raise a freelancers’ popularity too — but that’s a philosophical discussion for freelancers, and isn’t relevant here.)
@nemoorange: Using Bert’s plugin to organize/archive old designs is a great idea. I’ll look into that in future design changes.
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Re: [contrib] TXP Template distribution methodology
thebombsite wrote:
Up to now the fact that we have a small and somewhat knowledgeable user-base has been advantageous from the point-of-view of testing and debugging updates but I think the advent of 4.0.7 has pushed TXP to new heights of flexibility and we should now concentrate our efforts on widening the user-base and encouraging new users with little or no coding abilities.
I’m following this up outside the scope of themes, specifically, so a slight diverge from the topic at hand…
Theoretically I agree, and some percentage is likely true, but I’ve noticed a great many new people in the community (ever since the Smashing Magazine article) and you’re always going to have challenging situations like this. (There’s some extremes taking place there I won’t comment on.) Clearly you can’t cater to everyone the same way, which then begs the question, how far (time/effort) should a veteran go to help someone and what is missing from the community for these exceptionally needing users who can’t make heads or tails of what exists already? I don’t think the community is adequately setup yet for supporting beginner knowledge to that extreme, but that’s what doors are opening if the community grows. Tag code tutorials are still way too heady, for example.
As someone who has a stake in the documentation so people can self-help, I seriously ask the question: what’s missing? (Or how can what exists be done differently?) This is a highly relevant question if we don’t want to reinvent the same support threads over and over and over again.
Sometimes a hosted blogging app is a better solution for people, or this if they want something more personalized.
Should Txp start having a hosted Txp version, like WP does? Maybe that’s the answer if we really expect the community to grow exponentially. All they do is sign up for an account and everything is ready except the theme choice. Click the theme you want and start publishing. When it’s like that, the community will really grow. (And diverges.)
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Re: [contrib] TXP Template distribution methodology
Basic question: Are we expecting reverybody to build her website in a DIY fashion? Would everybody be able to repair her car, if there’d be enough friendly and accessible documentation? I’m not trying to elitistic, but there’s a reason why mankind decided to specialise.
Applying this for templates: Yes, there should be a method to interchange and swap the presentation layer more easily. But catering for the illiterate is no primary design goal, IMHO.
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Re: [contrib] TXP Template distribution methodology
wet wrote:
Are we expecting reverybody to build her website in a DIY fashion? Would everybody be able to repair her car, if there’d be enough friendly and accessible documentation?
Good questions, but I’ll just say that the whole point of documentation (for whatever it’s for) is indeed so the user can do things for themselves. Sure, you have the good-natured folks who answer questions and that’s expected, but when someone says _hey, can you just IM me all the way through this cuz I don’t know beans? — that’s when courtesy should show it’s head and the person gets their wallet out. However, that doesn’t mean documentation (or other modes of self-assistance) shouldn’t be approached with the objective of being the best (most helpful) it can be.
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Re: [contrib] TXP Template distribution methodology
thebombsite wrote:
We should not be putting over the idea that somehow TXP is an elitist application.
Destry wrote:
Nobody in this thread, anyway, made any such suggestion that themes are not important or that one is above them.
wet wrote:
I’m not trying to elitistic, but there’s a reason why mankind decided to specialise.
Textpattern, the humane Web generator. ;)
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