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#151 2008-08-21 16:19:21
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
Sounds like a good idea, Ruud.
Destry, all this mine or yours stuff, that’s not me, that’s you! Why are you harping on about things gone by? What on earth makes you think I don’t know the nature of a wiki? (Please don’t answer that one, I do not want another long explanation of the obvious). My (I only use ‘my’ for distinction of existing and my version ) txb is not accepting registrations for obvious reasons. It is not seen by Google for obvious reasons.
Where have I pointed the finger of blame? Except for my defence of my character because of your attempted slur on it, when I said you were responsible for some of the crap on Textbook, I have never blamed anyone. Why keep digging up the negativity that doesn’t really exist, when all the time I am trying to be as nice as I can be to you? (I put those links there for those who can’t see what your problem is).
You say you don’t care a rats tail if it’s MW or Docuwiki, so why not help me with the dw version and stop keeping assuming or suggesting that mw is the way to go? (all your posts except this one are slanted that way) If you really mean what you say about:- seeing Textpattern’s online image improved with a modernized presence to the world (including an integrated theme across key site locations: main, forum, wiki…)
- improving wiki content — as a communal effort now and into the future
- doing 1 and 2 in the least complicated way
then why don’t you work with me instead of being so insistent that your way is the only way and the best way? Wouldn’t that be the simplest way?
I don’t know what you understand by a ‘thing of principle’ , but if your principles include constantly looking for the negative, I don’t really care to know the rest of them.
Dozy P My attempt at music
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#152 2008-08-21 16:46:09
- uli
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- From: Cologne
- Registered: 2006-08-15
- Posts: 4,316
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
Zero and Destry, may I offer a course on “how to count up to ten slowly”, my newly maintained extinguisher and some delicious pots of herbal tea to you gentlemen? In order to avoid another drama, stay on your respective watersides and respect the territory on the other bank. You’d better don’t even mention each other. Thank you! :)
In bad weather I never leave home without wet_plugout, smd_where_used and adi_form_links
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#153 2008-08-21 16:51:24
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#154 2008-08-21 16:53:22
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
zero wrote:
You say you don’t care a rats tail if it’s MW or Docuwiki, so why not help me with the dw version and stop keeping assuming or suggesting that mw is the way to go?
But you appear to assume that DW is the way to go, so why can’t Destry have his own assumptions as well, given that they are the existing “status quo.” You are obviously passionate about your version and have put a lot of work into it, so you should not be surprised that Destry is just as passionate about his, and has worked on it a long time.
What bothers me most about this is that the whole conflict has been passed off to some kind of vague future “vote” or collective community decision, and I just don’t see that happening. There’s no mechanism for it. Never has been.
What remains is conflict.
TextPattern user since 04/04/04
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#155 2008-08-21 18:42:18
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
I haven’t started any conflict. You will see if you read all my posts that I am in a constant position of defending myself. You yourself are just one of the many people who are quick to point out my flaws but seem to overlook those of the person you feel I have affronted in some way. I respect the rights of others to have their views. I expect others to also respect that I have just as much right to state my opinion as they have. Of course there will be differences and I try to be rational and fair about it. I don’t always succeed when I am the focus of negative comments but I keep drinking the herbal and counting to ten.
Let’s take one example that you know about, Reid, but which you chose to blame me. In this comment, Jukka is starts to get abusive and inflammatory. For the sake of peace I ignore it. Then on the next page here he starts talking about wii (funny), then clearly has not read the comment he is referring to properly, blames me for posting too many topics, then says something I still don’t really understand (after the you say, I say bit), then denies that Destry did not do anything I said about him (because he did not read my links no doubt and probably doesn’t know about Destry’s major involvement with the original Textbook design but why defend him?), then doesn’t see what I said about Destry is facts that prove my point (again because he hasn’t read my links), then does not accept my hope for cooperation and competition nor my reason for starting the Dokuwiki txb, then accuses me of blaming Destry when I just defend myself, calls me a f*** a** and then says thanks as if that makes it all OK. He obviously hadn’t read my comments properly, seemed like he might be drunk and I wondered if he was trying to wind me up. So I say my piece and what happens? I’m the one who gets who gets blamed for off-topic insults!
Dozy P My attempt at music
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#156 2008-08-22 01:13:32
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
zero/destry:
Seriously guys. Knock it off, everyone’s sick of it. Find a way to work together or at least get a room. It’s beginning to remind me of a teen drama from the 80s.
In the meantime here’s something random to make you smile ;)
Last edited by mrdale (2008-08-22 01:23:33)
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#157 2008-08-22 01:36:05
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
zero wrote:
You will see if you read all my posts that I am in a constant position of defending myself. You yourself are just one of the many people who are quick to point out my flaws but seem to overlook those of the person you feel I have affronted in some way.
- In my last post, I did not attack you in any way, I suggested that you might consider an alternate point of view. If you consider that an attack, then I don’t know what to say. I attacked you in no way.
- Prior to that, I had made exactly one post in this 17 page thread, so I find it hard to see how you include me as someone “quick to point out my flaws.”
I was merely trying to express my opinion as a member of this community for over four years. If you can pull back your cloak of defensiveness long enough to re-read what I wrote, you might see that I point out a problem with this entire approach. And do not lay it at your feet.
But in this thread, I get the message. My opinion is not of interest to at least one of the primary parties involved. So I’ll stop wasting our time.
TextPattern user since 04/04/04
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#158 2008-08-22 01:57:02
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
I’m planning on attacking Poland, thoughts?
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#159 2008-08-22 02:08:35
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
mrdale wrote:
Seriously guys. Knock it off, everyone’s sick of it. Find a way to work together or at least get a room. It’s beginning to remind me of a teen drama from the 80s.
I fully endorse this message.
Oh, I’ll do you one better too :).
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#160 2008-08-22 03:28:20
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
jm wrote:
Oh, I’ll do you one better too :).
Oh, that’s one better aaight!
favorite quote “Really, knock yourselves out!”
…one of my personal favoritas
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#161 2008-08-22 16:36:04
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
who the heck is still ‘team textpattern’ anyway? haven’t all those efforts all but disintegrated?
personally i don’t like the direction this ‘new’ textbook has gone at all and i hope the new ‘official’ textpattern.com will NOT look like that.
Last edited by iblastoff (2008-08-22 16:38:09)
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#162 2008-08-22 16:48:08
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
Care to elaborate on what it is you don’t like, Steve?
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#163 2008-08-22 20:27:12
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
I find that Destry’s mockup quite good as it is:
- Feels really Textpatternish, but isn’t too “old-man”
- Simple, but not too simple
- More 21th century thing than the current. Oddly i like the current textual .com homepage :)
Maybe not my own personal “I love you” design kind of thing, but the Textpatternish look is really simple and homie, in a good way. And ‘cause personal tastes aren’t always right, I disagree with myself, and say that it is good.
What comes to the zero’s Textbook design, I think it doesn’t matter ‘cause it is about the content, and so it should be. It looks ugly, but the content and it’s semastics plus structure is all that is important, me thinks. And the content is rly good.
And probably, with 99% changes, the final product will look as good as the content will be.
Last edited by Gocom (2008-08-22 20:29:14)
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#164 2008-08-23 09:29:22
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
I love to give. It helps set me free. I gave you TXPQ after this thread failed to revive TXP Magazine. Some people appreciated it. Some still hate me.
I gave you a dokuwiki Textbook. What I didn’t mention before was that I was not sure if I would ever complete it. I had to learn Dokuwiki from scratch, tame it to my needs, strip all textbook content of extraneous html and gubbins, check all the content was up to date, rewrite much of it and do all that within a month because that was when Destry would be expecting to start work on the wiki. So that was another reason I kept quiet about it. I didn’t want to promise anything I couldn’t complete. But I got it done in time which is testament to how easy to use Dokuwiki is. You all know Destry’s reaction. (That will be knew now he has deleted his posts).
I have given my reasons why I could not work with D. I have nothing to be ashamed of. I have no reason to delete my posts. They contain no ill will towards anyone, just some statements to clarify matters. So I leave them there to show my good intentions.
You’re “sick of it” and so am I. The last episode was totally unnecessary. Firefusion asked a question which was none of my nor Destry’s business. It is up to the devs what happens with textpattern.com and subdomains. That’s why I saw no reason to answer. But Destry did and we all have to endure more negativity. In my reply to Destry here I asked him if he really meant what he said and invited him to work with me on what I was doing. A gracious response would have been along the lines of – “I accept there is a Textbook available and ready to go that can easily be integrated into the new header. Let’s get it together, it won’t take hardly any time at all, then I can work on a Mediawiki version and if we agree it is better, then we’ll port the content across and the community benefits all round”. (He could have taken that approach right at the start of the thread instead of instigating all the negativity)
Instead of that we get ‘the big gesture’ below. Brushing the dirt under the carpet doesn’t make it go away, warhorse. And the ‘brilliant strategy’ and ‘confusion’ you see, D, is your creation, it is what you are seeing, it is the lens through which you are seeing what I have done. It is not reality.
reid, the community decision, it’s a good point. I did take notice. For all practical purposes the community is Ruud and Wet. We all rely on them. Everything revolves around them. Working closely with Ruud on content and design has been a real pleasure and learning experience. Not only is Ruud very clever and perceptive but is also patient and knows how to explain clearly to get his point across instead of just expecting me to accept it without question. It comes from mutual respect and seeing both sides of the coin. Thank you, Ruud.
But you’re right, Reid, about the vague future “vote” or collective community decision. It’s amazing how the community we praise so highly disappears when a show of hands is needed. The mechanism has always been there, people just need to speak up and the message comes across loud and clear. Unfortunately there’s all the negativity to wade through so there probably aren’t many people reading this thread any more.
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Destry wrote:
mrdale wrote:
It’s beginning to remind me of a teen drama from the 80s.
Don’t follow that in the least, Dale, but “everyone’s sick of it” is clear enough. Me too.
To show as much, and hopefully my overall good intention with all of this (besides joining Patrick to welcome zero as TextBook editor, which fell on blind eyes apparently) I’m going to delete every one of my posts in this thread. If zero has had enough tea and counting he might delete all his posts that have a bad flavor too towards me and anyone else, followed by all of you who have brought attention to the discussion with your own comments on the matter. I’ll then come back here in 24 hours and delete this post too and get back to real work never to return to this thread (if I can’t make it in 24 hours, forum admins have my blessing to do it for me). What should remain is a thread with half the size and reflecting only zero’s content productivity agenda. You want clean-up? Here’s your chance.
reid wrote:
What bothers me most about this is that the whole conflict has been passed off to some kind of vague future “vote” or collective community decision, and I just don’t see that happening. There’s no mechanism for it. Never has been.
Good, intelligent statement, as usual from reid. Makes me wonder, and since I’m talking to everyone, Dale, I’ll keep it here. The way I see it, there’s no decision that needs made, and the perceived need for a decision should never have come about, and that’s what makes me wonder. We’re in this position now, so if it’s not the community (which I’m not so sure about being this tool is supposedly by and for the community) then I can only presume TeamTextpattern will decide things when all cards are on the table. If not that, what else is there? Nothing? You just leave two sites called “TextBook” running to confuse the hell out of the rest of the world? Brilliant strategy, folks, and a complete step backwards from the objectives of revamping Textpattern’s image. I fairly and tactfully pointed out the two ends this likely will end up at (repeated below now since I deleted that post), and they both rely on decision making by somebody somewhere about something. A “mechanism” might be just what this community needs to help get shit done in a productive and timely manner. There really should be no competition on this, a merging is all that is needed.
I’m done here.
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1) We use the existing MediaWiki with whatever new presentation is validated by TeamTextpattern and port your nice content efforts into it.
2) We use your Docuwiki system, reskinned with the presentation validated by TeamTextpattern.
EDIT: Another green tea and the appearance of this man, and I’m tempered a bit. There’s light at the end of the tunnel.
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For those who are still with me, thank you for your patience, I am nearly finished. I wanted to “give something back” and I have done. Now it’s time for me to move on. There is now only one Textbook, there always was only one, the other was just a working demo version I hoped you would all like.
Goodb
Dozy P My attempt at music
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