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#1 2008-08-19 13:00:54
- stopsatgreen
- Member
- Registered: 2008-07-03
- Posts: 50
[contrib] Improving textpattern.org
I’m new to Textpattern and like it a lot; it’s easy to learn, well-documented, very extensible.
The only criticism I have is not of the product itself, but of textpattern.org, the resources site; it’s not easy to see which plugins, etc, have been recently updated, which are popular, etc.
I think this is a consequence of using a heavily-modded version of TXP; the aim is admirable, but it just wasn’t designed to do that.
I wonder what people would think of migrating the site to another, more suitable, platform; I think something like Pligg would make it far easier to find what you want.
What does everyone think?
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Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org
The TXP version at TXP.org isn’t modded at all. It just has a lot of plugins installed.
It’s certainly true that it could be improved, but that doesn’t require a different CMS and you provide no arguments on why a different CMS is needed.
Properly measuring plugin popularity is non-trivial.
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#3 2008-08-19 13:33:16
- stopsatgreen
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- Registered: 2008-07-03
- Posts: 50
Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org
Well there are really two principal ways in which popularity can be tangibly measured: downloads, and ratings. Both of those would be a good start.
I think the advantage of using something like Pligg is that it is built from the ground up to do the job of promoting popular articles. Of course you could do that with TXP, but it would involve a lot of development time, I think.
What we don’t want is development time taken away from TXP Core or Modules; to me it makes sense to use a purpose-built system. It’s like this forum; why wouldn’t you use a purpose-built piece of software like PunBB?
BTW, I hope this criticism is taken in the same spirit in which it is given: constructively.
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Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org
stopsatgreen wrote:
Well there are really two principal ways in which popularity can be tangibly measured: downloads, and ratings. Both of those would be a good start.
The fact that some plugin is downloaded a lot of times, does not make it popular as there is no way to know if the plugin will eventually be used. The rating is also subjective as some plugins are very versatile but they are sometimes harder to use than others. Also, who would actually care about the number of downloads as long as the plugin does what you expect it t do? I think that this suggestion would encourage unhealthy competition.
I think the advantage of using something like Pligg is that it is built from the ground up to do the job of promoting popular articles. Of course you could do that with TXP, but it would involve a lot of development time, I think.
What we don’t want is development time taken away from TXP Core or Modules; to me it makes sense to use a purpose-built system.
No dev time needed as there are plugins which can easily be installed so as to expose the popular articles but why should this matter? The information you might be looking for after a while might not necessarily be in the ‘popular’ list. Why should there be a need to read what others are reading?
It would be strange for a cms to use another one for one of its own sites.
It’s like this forum; why wouldn’t you use a purpose-built piece of software like PunBB?
The use of PunBB for this forum dates back to the early beta stages of txp but comparing a forum with a cms software produces different arguments to comparing a cms with another cms. Txp cannot do everything (I remind my self about that, every time it is my turn to do the dishes) but its main sites should – in my view – be powered by the software they intent to promote.
BTW, I hope this criticism is taken in the same spirit in which it is given: constructively.
stopsatgreen, you’ve been very gracious with your suggestions but in my view the .org site is doing its job wonderfully, my only request for enhancement – subjectively speaking – would be to add the ability to do section specific searches.
Last edited by colak (2008-08-19 14:28:10)
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#5 2008-08-19 14:51:18
- stopsatgreen
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- Registered: 2008-07-03
- Posts: 50
Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org
The fact that some plugin is downloaded a lot of times, does not make it popular as there is no way to know if the plugin will eventually be used. The rating is also subjective as some plugins are very versatile but they are sometimes harder to use than others.
I agree that neither of the two popularity meters are perfect, but I think they would be very useful for discovering new plugins; I quite often browse by most downloaded / highest rating when taking a look at Firefox add-ons, Wordpress plugins, etc.
It would be strange for a cms to use another one for one of its own sites.
I don’t agree; different tools for different jobs. I would agree if you were in ‘competition’ with Pligg*, but both have a different purpose. I wouldn’t suggest using Drupal or Wordpress, because that would be counter-productive.
In my view the .org site is doing its job wonderfully
If it works for you, then it’s fine. For me, I think it needs some more work to expose more of the great plugins which have been developed, and find out which still work and which are still in development. I’d like to see clearer details on:
Number of downloads
User rating
Last updated date
Version compatibility
If nobody agrees, then I’ll muddle through.
*Or something like Pligg; I’m not desperately advocating it, I just think it’s a suitable platform
Last edited by stopsatgreen (2008-08-19 14:52:27)
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Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org
The problem with counting downloads is that if you just count how often a plugin was downloaded, new plugins will score lower, because they haven’t had a lot of time to be downloaded. If a list of popular plugins is shown on the front page, this draws even more attention to the those popular plugins.
I think measuring popularity matters most when comparing plugins that offer similar functionality, because you don’t install a plugin because it’s popular; you install it because you require certain functionality. In reality, plugins on TXP.org mostly have completely different functionality.
TXP.org already has an sort of rating system installed (you can rate it as “helpful: yes/no”). From what I’ve seen people only choose “Yes”, which makes it similar to the download count. If more people download/use the plugin, more people will rate the plugin. I don’t think it works well.
Both ratings and downloads can easily be influenced to change ones position in the popularity rating.
True, we use a Wiki for Textbook and PunBB for the forum.
TXP.org on the other hand is something that can be done with TXP relatively easy. Perhaps it could be done slightly easier (technically) with another CMS, but we’re (obviously) very familiar with TXP ;)
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#7 2008-08-19 15:38:31
- stopsatgreen
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- Registered: 2008-07-03
- Posts: 50
Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org
Well OK, if it can be done with TXP, all the better. But I really do feel it needs to have those features exposed. Take a look at Firefox Add-ons for example; it has:
Recommended
Most Popular
Newest
Recently Updated
And each individual entry clearly shows:
Rating
No. of Downloads
Wordpress Plugins also has the same categories, plus prominently features:
Requires Version
Compatible Up To
I’m not saying we should copy them, but consider them the benchmark. I think these are all important fields, providing great value to the user, and this system seems to work well on most major module/plugin sites that I use on a regular basis. It gives exposure to well-liked modules and provides useful feedback to users and developers alike.
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Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org
stopsatgreen wrote:
I wonder what people would think of migrating the site to another, more suitable, platform; I think something like Pligg would make it far easier to find what you want.
Well OK, if it can be done with TXP, all the better. But I really do feel it needs to have those features exposed. Take a look at Firefox Add-ons for example; it has… And each individual entry clearly shows…
But those features don’t require different platform nor modding. Just couple plugins (two) and usage of inbuild core functions.
Last edited by Gocom (2008-08-19 15:46:44)
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#9 2008-08-19 15:55:18
- stopsatgreen
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- Registered: 2008-07-03
- Posts: 50
Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org
That’s what I mean; I only thought we needed Pligg because TXP didn’t have the same capability, but as everybody says it can be done easily, then I agree.
In which case, what is needed is just a redesign with an emphasis on usability. I will start looking at that and making some suggestions, unless everybody thinks it’s fine the way it is.
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Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org
stopsatgreen wrote:
In which case, what is needed is just a redesign with an emphasis on usability.
Cool. If you are starting to look at that, check out what Destry is up to and find some commonality so it all fits together. Now’s a fitting time to look at the .org domain, methinks.
Last edited by Bloke (2008-08-19 16:15:38)
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Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org
I think .org could use some interface improvements, but what really bothers me about that site, and I’ve probably written posts about it two years ago, is the name of the site — “Textpattern Resources.”
Back in 2004, when there wasn’t all the resource-like URLs available (TextBook, FAQs, TextGarden, etc and so forth) it made sense because it was the only resources site going. It was like the first hodge-podge of skins, tips and tricks and whatever. Admirable, but time has moved on, and .org has not effectively evolved with it.
To me the .org site has become the de facto place for plugins, and that’s the only thing is should focus on. Furthermore, the name needs changed to reflect that focus. As it is now, the site is not easily discussed in reference or documentation because the word “resources” is too misleading with the times. I also find it does not fit into the new design concept well because of the name. It should be a kind of resource (plugins), not all resources itself, like it originally started out to be.
Whatever happens, I would like to see a name change at least.
Last edited by Destry (2008-08-20 17:25:03)
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Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org
Destry said:
To me the .org site has become the de facto place for plugins, and that’s the only thing is should focus on.
I completely agree.
Tutorials and tips belong in TextBook
Templates are already done better on other websites.
Mods is something I’d like to see disappearing yesterday, because it keeps people from upgrading.
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