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Thanks for the feedback, Patrick. I hope new users like it too.
I was reading the Textpattern Semantic Model and there’s a point highlighted in yellow about Textile and emphasis and it mentions screen readers knowing what emphasis means. I’d forgotten about that. So it looks like <strong> and <em> should replace <b> and <i> as the norm. <b> and <i> could then be used for additional styling that is the exception. I wonder if there’s a way to search and replace those elements in a whole bunch of pages instead of a page at a time? I think all the tags pages could do with changing in that respect.
I’ve also taken the liberty of making alterations to the Textpattern Semantic Model because I thought some things weren’t clear enough or potentially confusing. I hope I haven’t confused things further!
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A few notes on wiki styling based on some of the comments I’ve seen in this and other posts on the topic…
As Patrick noted, MW prevents use of certain HTML elements. I’m not sure why, and I’m not sure of the entire list, but I don’t think it’s very many. Two others that do not parse are ACRONYM and ABBR, which few people in wikis bother with anyway and for justified reasons.
However, it’s very easy and semantically acceptable to fake a non-parsing element by using a span and class selector for that element. If deemed valuable, we could add such custom rules to the css on a case-by-case basis.
For example:
Usage (within a paragraph):
Or another one with more utility (and meant to be used temporarily in copy):
Usage in wiki (within a paragraph):
Although MW provides a means for editing the CSS file in the frontoffice as a special wiki page, we’re not going to do that. For one reason, the new design will follow a style guide, and therefore be relatively fixed (except for collaborative aides we might create over time and add to the style guide). Therefore when things need changed, it will be reflected in the style guide (which will be in the wiki), and the CSS edited the conventional way (on the file using a text editor).
Another reason is there will not be just a single CSS file to edit, and so the frontoffice editing approach will be useless anyway.
One thing I’ll be doing is taking the gargantuan main.css file and breaking it down into logical pieces. For example:
These may not reflect the actual file names yet, or what goes in them, but just to give the idea.
The main.css will stay so to not need to edit the php files that reference it; however, it will contain no (or few) rules, but rather use @imports to call each of the other css files in order appropriate cascading order. It’s then much easier to edit a particular “kind” of presentation in the other files later, rather than scroll 5 kilometers through a single CSS file to find that one little class selector, for example. This is the same CSS model used for the forum, if I remember correctly.
By default, MW tries to cater to every browser and their past 5 versions (give or take). As a result, there’s quite a few CSS files lying around just for different browser versions alone (hacks are not in the already monstrous main.css). One reason it’s so bloated by default is because MW default skins, especially monobook, have convoluted layouts and bad semantical structure. Furthermore, a lot of CSS is used that does not validate or is not supported across all browsers, thus one thing compensates for the previous, and so forth. A real Frankenstein mess that has evolved over years, and which the MW developers have yet to do anything about. This is one reason why MW has a bad rap for being an “awkward” or “heavy” wiki, which is too bad because it’s really doesn’t have to be that way.
We’ll retool the markup and CSS so it’s just a single cascade (indicated above) that works without a sea of hacks. David_1cog (?) made a little headway on CSS cleanup with the current skin, but there’s a lot more to do with cascading, markup…
For the record, we will support all modern browser versions and IE6. That means not the last 5 versions of Opera, for example. (If a div doesn’t float properly and your using Opera 9.0, sorry, we’re not hacking for it. Update your browser.).
IE6 (and 7 if necessary) may get a special CSS file that is fed via a conditional comment, that ways it’s easy to drop these files in the future when IE6 goes the way of Netscape.
Can’t say to much about this yet, except that we need to see the .com concepts. The actual wiki version of the style guide will mostly be written in parallel with new skin development.
However, if people have comments about style guide-ness, try and throw them down here, or in this thread if you don’t have a wiki account or are too lazy.
Last edited by Destry (2008-06-28 06:50:13)
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The <code> element style has gone funny, eg on this page, which I converted to mw format. So please restyle it. BTW, I couldn’t find an alternative mw thing for <code>.
In removing html from this page I put image in frame which allows caption, thereby allowing removal of <br /> and <small>. However, images now float to the right, so css needs altering.
Last edited by zero (2008-06-30 13:19:00)
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Can we have the Textile extension added to Textbook now rather than later?
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I have some reservations about the textile extension. I don’t know if it will handle section headers the same way so we lose the automatic TOC’s on the page. Destry might know a bit more.
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Don’t worry, I realise now that the cunning plan I had wouldn’t have worked anyway, so I’ll cancel that request:) Sorry to trouble you, Patrick.
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As I’ve mentioned before (somewhere), I’ve been involved with moving. We (family) are in, but still no internet connection yet so I’ve not been able to keep a presence here as normal. However, you don’t need an internet connection to work locally, so between the multitude of tasks that come with moving into a new house, like stripping all the unsightly wallpaper (wallpaper seemingly as cultural in France as baguettes), I’ve managed to put my TextBook design thoughts to canvas for everyone’s feedback.
A few notes:
And finally the mocks:
I’ll start work on this in a local wiki (cuz I’ll probably use a variation of this locally regardless of what happens here), and roll into the dev wiki when I have internet connection again.
————-
Side:
The question that begs to be asked (assuming a common theme is used across sites) is who’s going to reskin the forum? :)
It should be easy to see how the forum could slip right into a theme I’m proposing without problems. Maybe I’ll do a mockup of that too just for fun; might have the following three mods, at least:
EDIT: Orthography fixes.
Last edited by Destry (2008-08-18 14:51:57)
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Yowzers, that looks sweeeeeet. Love the integrated look; to my (albeit untrained) eye it manages to be both classic Textpattern and contemporary at the same time. Very nice work.
Doubt I’m the right person to answer any of the questions, nor probably the right person to do any of the ‘doing’ when it comes to that stage, but if there’s a shortfall of any better-skilled people for editing grunt work / consistency checking, I’m willing to offer to do my best to learn ‘on the job’. Providing someone trusts me enough with a login.
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Bloke wrote:
…it manages to be both classic Textpattern and contemporary at the same time.
Thanks, Bloke. “Sweeeeet“er words could not have been said about it.
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