Marketing TXP

Gocom · 2008-06-25 19:14:28

zero wrote:

When EE gets its new interface more people will leave txp behind.

Or some ppl will leave from Expression Engine ‘cause people are individual, not all like the new design nor the new features that include quite hard navigation, compared to TXP’s simple two level tab system.

Many people don’t know what a cms is and that it includes blogging. If they want a blog, they will look for ‘blog’ and not ‘cms’.

Textpattern still is for experienced users: web developers and designers – not for new comers that want a simple one click theme and blog, with out knowing anything about CSS and XHTML. Textpattern is not about themes, themes, blogs, blogs – but instead about unique websites that do what they do: not just blog.

Or do we really want 200 pages manual and forum full with newbie questions about “how to use CSS”? ;)

Eventually no one will answer those on going “how to use design basics”-questions which leads community minus points. Outsiders might think community is bad, then TXP could lost the “great little community”-title.

Last edited by Gocom (2008-06-25 19:18:31)

zero · 2008-06-25 19:26:08

I agree there aren’t currently enough volunteers to answer all those newbie questions but come one, there are many web designers who haven’t started blogging yet or know what a cms is. Exclude these?

hcgtv · 2008-06-25 19:44:31

Gocom wrote:

Textpattern is not about themes, themes, blogs, blogs – but instead about unique websites that do what they do: not just blog.

You know, this a recurring theme, Textpattern is for web developers, not for newbies.

So let’s explore this angle, a web developer grabs the Textpattern core code, puts up a site for a client and pockets, let’s say $5,000 dollars. How much of those $5,000 do they funnel back to the Textpattern community?

Now, if we had a more user friendly Textpattern, then monies could be made by theme and plugin developers, they would have a bigger audience to sell their addons to. Support, well that could also be charged for, so that newbie style questions could be handled by those willing to answer them for a fee. A portion of these monies could in turn be funneled back to the core developers.

Textpattern is not going to die off because of Expression Engine, it’s going to die off cause we want it to remain this highly kept secret.

masa · 2008-06-25 20:01:01

hcgtv wrote:

Since Dean left, the face of Textpattern has pretty much stayed the same. You ask a question about why this or that was done, and you usually get the canned answer, “Dean did it that way”.

I got involved with txp about the same time (late 2005), because I was desperately looking for a CMS I could figure out easily. Txp fit the bill perfectly. No matter what others are saying, I still think its admin interface is very well layed out and easy to grasp – I don’t care about its use of tables either.
Recently I let a client have a go at it with only rudimentary instructions and they figured out the missing bits on their own without problems. Now that tells me something.

No developer has come in and been a disruptive force, it’s almost like nobody wants to screw around with the status quo, it’s like Dean never left.

I think txp users fall into two broad categories…

those that understand all its technical underpinnings (like yourself) and realise where improvements are necessary and beneficial – they want to push it further and I understand that.

On the other hand there are those that value the consistency of having a solid tool to deploy sites (like myself) and not worry about the technical aspects much, because they don’t understand them to start with.
I appreciate that things don’t change drastically between versions and I’m very grateful for the enhancements that our devs implement without mocking around with the general appearance. For instance Adobe changes menus/shortcuts with every new version of its applications – it’s dreadful.

Personally I feel txp is on track and doing well.

Last edited by masa (2008-06-25 20:01:59)

zero · 2008-06-25 20:16:45

I’ve been checking this SEOchat page and finding interesting results. I’ve only checked keyword positions for ‘cms’, ‘content management system’ and ‘blog’ so far for textpattern, wordpress and expressionengine dot coms. It seems textpattern is doing pretty well!

Statistics, damn statistics etc, but my understanding is that the other two are doing so well in real terms because they do NOT depend on the one main site. Their marketing is successful for other reasons, mainly their users I should think. Does that make anybody think twice about ‘consolidation’?

els · 2008-06-25 20:52:41

zero wrote:

but facts are facts and txp is less popular and visible than it used to be.

Is that a fact? Has there ever been done proper research into this?

It all seems to be slipping away imho, and that’s why I do expect people to do something about it, that’s why I am trying to introduce some urgency before it is too late.

When is it too late? Does TXP’s continued existence really depend on a large number of users that do nothing more with it than running a simple blog, using a pre-made template? What kind of publicity would that be?

masa wrote:

On the other hand there are those that value the consistency of having a solid tool to deploy sites (like myself) and not worry about the technical aspects much, because they don’t understand them to start with.
I appreciate that things don’t change drastically between versions and I’m very grateful for the enhancements that our devs implement without mocking around with the general appearance. […]

Personally I feel txp is on track and doing well.

I couldn’t agree more.

Honestly, I just don’t see the urgency of this whole marketing thing. Unless of course Ruud and Robert are threatening to stop developing if we don’t sell TXP to another million users within a month…

maverick · 2008-06-25 21:09:59

Fwiw (free ;-P). These are the odd, tangent, and occasional thoughts I’ve had while reading this discussion:

no other marketing tool replaces word of mouth
for most people perception is reality
buzz=tipping point. tipping point=buzz

leadership is key
leadership needs empowered teams
know your purpose and stick to it
critical mass has an impact
life-cycles end in dying or renewal
what was, and what is are not what will be.
its easier to talk than act

Txp is the easiest CMS I tried
for me, Txp’s strength is its tags; You could change the underpinnings to Ruby or Perl and as long as I had the tagging language I’d make the transition
In some ways maybe it helps to think of Txp (or any CMS) is a MySQL front end for web designers :-)
The people who help in the forums are an important strength

As Wet and Ruud are the developers, project direction, scope, and vision are their call. We can chose to buy in, or not, as desired

Not sure any of these thoughts help . . . . or even are worth sharing. But they somehow seemed to relate :-D

Mike

zero · 2008-06-25 21:16:14

Els wrote:

Is that a fact? Has there ever been done proper research into this?

No. I’m judging from my perception of numbers using the forum.

When is it too late? Does TXP’s continued existence really depend on a large number of users that do nothing more with it than running a simple blog, using a pre-made template? What kind of publicity would that be?

No, txp existence does not depend on that selection and it would be poor publicity. But as I have said many times, blog is only part of it, cms is the main part of it. Both need addressing.

Honestly, I just don’t see the urgency of this whole marketing thing. Unless of course Ruud and Robert are threatening to stop developing if we don’t sell TXP to another million users within a month…

Good to hear your opinion, Els.

Edit: those points are definitely worth sharing, Maverick.

Last edited by zero (2008-06-25 21:18:48)

hcgtv · 2008-06-25 21:18:49

Els wrote:

Honestly, I just don’t see the urgency of this whole marketing thing. Unless of course Ruud and Robert are threatening to stop developing if we don’t sell TXP to another million users within a month…

From the old Team Textpattern page:

Dean Allen: Creator of Textpattern and Textile
Mary Fredborg: Head of Making Stuff Work
Pedro Palazón: Head of Inventing New Things
Alex Shiels: Head of Releases Future
Sencer Yurdagül: Head of Releases Past and Present
Reid Stott: Head of Commercial Initiatives

So you’re saying that when Ruud and Robert become past alumni, then we should start to worry.

Got it…

els · 2008-06-25 21:39:07

hcgtv wrote:

So you’re saying that when Ruud and Robert become past alumni, then we should start to worry.

Got it…

Well, not really, but I guess you got that too. If you want to see the fact that people tend to move on from time to time as unfavourable, go ahead. I don’t.
What I meant is more like what maverick said:

As Wet and Ruud are the developers, project direction, scope, and vision are their call. We can chose to buy in, or not, as desired

thebombsite · 2008-06-25 22:57:17

Whenever I post in this kind of discussion I seem to get ignored. Maybe it’s because I say things that people don’t like so pin back your lugholes and get ready for some abuse!

We are now getting on for some 150 posts in this thread and this is the third relating to textpattern.com design and content. What has been done so far? Sod all. Just a lot of hot air. I should mention here that I am no advertising guru but I have run a company or two in the real world where the object is to make money and survive in a pool full of sharks so when it comes to getting things done I know that talking in circles gets you nowhere and that is exactly what is happening here.

Here are some thoughts for you. Call them professional thoughts if you will.

Ruud and Robert are software developers. That is what they are good at and they should stick to it. They should not be involved in the design or content of the textpattern.com site other than to contribute articles as they already do to the weblog relating to new or modified facilities in the latest TXP release.

A new team needs to be set up to take control of the site and should include a site designer to control the look and feel of the site, someone with professional marketing experience to give pointers to the direction of the content and come up with some snappy slogans and someone who is good at writing articles (because good marketeers are not necessarily good writers). That’s 3 people then. We don’t need 10 or 20 people, just 3. The more people that are involved the less will get done. Too much chat chat. So we need 3 people to step up to the plate.

The first thing that needs to be done is to get a design sorted because without it you have nowhere to put the content. So let’s get on with that and let’s do it now because it really wants to be ready before the megatastic 4.0.7 hits the streets. For my own part I feel that the design should remain simple and that a skeleton of the design should become a part of the page and form templates and CSS that come with the download. This connects the software to the site. Good marketing. We should get away from this 3 column layout because it reminds me of sites I used to see 5 years ago. It’s old-hat. That’s not to say it can’t be 3 column just not the way it is now. Also the TXP site should rely entirely on native TXP code. If you can’t do it in the download you shouldn’t be doing it on the live site. The live site should be a demonstration of what can be achieved with the download if you put your mind to it. If at all possible it should not use public-side plug-ins apart from maybe zem_contact_reborn which I always think of as an automatic addition.

Once we know what the design is to look like then the marketing guru needs to get his/her brain working over-time for ideas. By all means look through some of the things that have been said here. Once the ideas start flowing the writer should get on with the actual content. Also, once the design is sorted, Ruud and Robert need to get the page and form templates and CSS transferred into the software. I should also say that they both deserve a big vote of thanks for what they have done with 4.0.6 and what they have so far done with the megatastic 4.0.7. And let us not forget Mary and the others who have contributed loads of time and effort to this project. We now need to make that effort worthwhile by getting Textpattern NOTICED!

As for consolidating the main TXP sites into one – forget it. Bad idea. It will only result in a confusingly large monolithic site that will be difficult to navigate and require so many plug-ins that it will bear no relationship to the download at all. “Can’t see the wood for the trees” comes to mind. Maybe once the main site design is complete we could look at consolidating the “look” of all the sites but that is as far as I would go with that.

With regard to the “TXP Network links” at the top of this forum The first 4 links should be to Textpattern.com, Textbook, Textpattern Resources and Textgarden. As far as I am aware those are the only “official” sites. There should be no need for things like “Home, Download, FAQ, Weblog, E-Mailing Lists”. The download should be easily visible on the home page anyway and the rest should be easily located through the site’s navigation. I’m not even sure why we have e-mailing lists. Maybe it’s just “fashionable”. Maybe someone could enlighten me on that one. The other sites could remain under the “Elsewhere” title. (I just know I’m going to get an argument about that one.)

And all this needs to be done ready for 4.0.7 so can we please just get on with it because all these threads are beginning to remind me of why I don’t like football.

I shall now crawl back into my shell and concentrate on pushing TXP to it’s limits and maybe getting the odd little thing added to the core.

Last edited by thebombsite (2008-06-25 23:22:23)

maverick · 2008-06-25 23:47:58

I hear some overlap between zero and Stuart.

What has to happen to set up an official marketing team? Do Ruud & Robert have to give their blessing (sign off on) to the “professional marketer”, so s/he can set up the team of three?

Last edited by maverick (2008-06-26 01:28:37)

Mary · 2008-06-26 00:58:23

Just a fact-check interjection… :)

but facts are facts and txp is less popular and visible than it used to be.

Is that a fact? Has there ever been done proper research into this?

No. I’m judging from my perception of numbers using the forum.

We’ve had folks saying since 2005 that Textpattern isn’t as popular as it used to be, which is funny considering Textpattern, the forum, etc weren’t publicly available until early 2004 (there were perhaps a handful of people that used Textpattern before that).

Until a month ago, I knew the actual numbers. When I started admining the forum (which was long before I was a core dev), I cleaned the database of folks that had never posted and hadn’t come back in years, and I did that every once in a while, which drastically reduced the number of users. I also regularly deleted folks that never verified their accounts, but I don’t know off-hand if those get included in the forum counts.

Based solely upon forum numbers, and assuming nothing earth-shattering has taken place since I stepped down, it’s fair to say we’ve had a very slowly increasing number of actual users (as opposed to folks that were around for a short period of time and never returned).

Slinking away into the darkness now…

Destry · 2008-06-26 02:08:50

maverick wrote:

I hear some overlap between zero and Stuart.

I’m hearing different. Zero wants more domains up. Stuart doesn’t (sensibly). Zero would see the community step up to the grassroots challenge. Stuart is saying a lean team with clear duties. Zero is already putting target words on the table like “blog” and “cms.” Stuart is saying Step 1: mockups for a new .com site (and really, that’s the thing needed most here).

One thing zero and Stuart have in common though, compared to others here, is they feel something needs done, and that’s a lot in itself.

Stuart, I’m certainly hearing you loud and clear. You may recall in my entry post back on page 12(?) that I had written a “monstrous” piece about this…. well you covered most of the very same points I ended up not posting. Thank you.

Textpattern is great. No question. Txp developers are heros. No question. But the developers are not campaign people. They don’t have time for it even if they were. There should be no doubling up on wearing hats. They should give their blessing about who the image people are, yes, certainly, but they should step aside after that and let each group do their thing without challenges every step of the way. That’s how the “competitors” do it, it’s a model that works, why should Txp be different.

I think “marketing” is probably the wrong word in all this, and it should be pulled back from. It’s not really about that. Rather it’s about IMAGE. Nothing more, nothing less. Txp may be relevant (it is to me), but it doesn’t look relevant. I’m not talking about the interface, I’m talking about you, this place and the system as a whole. You bring someone to Txp’s site and to EE’s site…which one do you think they will investigate first? It’s a no-brainer.

So, for the sake of productivity and less speaking, there is wet’s wiki on the new site design. I guess this thread should be closed and those who give a shit should go over to the wiki and finalize the design guide so somebody can produce some first design drafts. Yeah?

maniqui · 2008-06-26 03:30:30

maverick has made a great post.

thebombsite wrote:

The first thing that needs to be done is to get a design sorted because without it you have nowhere to put the content.

Destry wrote:

Stuart is saying Step 1: mockups for a new .com site (and really, that’s the thing needed most here).

Step 0: create the content and organize it in sections. Creating some wireframes with real content could be a best approach before getting into designing mockups. Repeat the mantra: “content is the king, content makes the design and not the other way around”. Then, go to Step 1.

Destry wrote:

You bring someone to Txp’s site and to EE’s site…which one do you think they will investigate first? It’s a no-brainer.

Probably most but not everybody will go with EE. But Txp.com has that wabi-sabi (the beauty of the imperfection) style that is also appealing.
And…

Destry wrote:

So, for the sake of productivity and less speaking, there is wet’s wiki on the new site design

Agree. And please, let’s take the following into consideration: Txp.com has changed very little during its existence. It may be time to make more little changes a little faster.
In other words: everything is construction. The relaunch doesn’t need to be made when all the new site is complete, shining like the glow, with bells and whistles. Let’s get dirty in code, content, and design, trying and failing. A website is more a live thing than a static thing. Everything is construction. Hey, don’t fall asleep yet!.

This isn’t a business, we haven’t to keep anything secret at all. In fact, wet’s wiki and the previous 123write were open.
So, why not setup a subdomain on TXP.com where the relaunch development starts, in front of everyone’s eyes?

Or even better, if everything is construction, let’s destroy current site, burn it (most content on the front page is really outdated, in terms of “marketing”), and then, hopefully, we will find all of us doing something in concrete?
I may sound a bit extreme, but let’s face it: destroying current site (and, some one, some day, will have to do it) is, at least, doing something in our efforts for creating a new one.

Will TXP be “hurt” for not having a “complete” website (just one in construction) during two or three weeks?

Now that I’ve spoken, you may close this thread.

Last edited by maniqui (2008-06-26 03:33:42)

Textpattern CMS

Textpattern CMS support forum

#136 2008-06-25 19:14:28

Re: Marketing TXP

#137 2008-06-25 19:26:08

Re: Marketing TXP

#138 2008-06-25 19:44:31

Re: Marketing TXP

#139 2008-06-25 20:01:01

Re: Marketing TXP

#140 2008-06-25 20:16:45

Re: Marketing TXP

#141 2008-06-25 20:52:41

Re: Marketing TXP

#142 2008-06-25 21:09:59

Re: Marketing TXP

#143 2008-06-25 21:16:14

Re: Marketing TXP

#144 2008-06-25 21:18:49

Re: Marketing TXP

#145 2008-06-25 21:39:07

Re: Marketing TXP

#146 2008-06-25 22:57:17

Re: Marketing TXP

#147 2008-06-25 23:47:58

Re: Marketing TXP

#148 2008-06-26 00:58:23

Re: Marketing TXP

#149 2008-06-26 02:08:50

Re: Marketing TXP

#150 2008-06-26 03:30:30

Re: Marketing TXP

Board footer