Marketing TXP

Destry · 2008-06-25 18:10:48

I clearly said a couple posts up that the words (meaning marketing words) are irrelevant at this point, so no one should quote me and make assumptions to my meaning. In fact, all I was saying is you don’t need more websites than what already exist. Period. After that you can use the terms “blog”, “cms” whatever, but that’s not my concern or interest right now because I’m not on any Txp marketing team.

Zero: your enthusiasm is great, really, but there’s something in your words that seems a bit expecting, or rushed. Your not the first person to say the things you are saying. Sorry. What you are realizing, however, is how hard it is to get anything done in this community. Others besides myself can probably list a few big “volunteer projects” of one kind or another that have failed even after people stepped up to participate.

I’m hesitant to believe that marketing Txp out of the quicksand will get done effectively by a handful of volunteers with subjective opinions. Leadership, if ever before, is needed in this area if you want results anytime in the near future, and I’m not the first one to say it. But I know that’s not existing, and I know the only thing this community can do is make initiatives to fill in the blank, so bon…have at it.

Oh, I was kind of kidding about Dean. I’m sure he has better sense than to get caught up in this mess again. But, if…IF…he did want to. Like I said, scimitar-slice minute. You listening, Dean? Then I’ll give my writing services, button services, newsletter services…whatever needs done.

Where’s this thread of Kevin Potts, by the way?

EDIT: Listen, I did not mean to get in here and stir up any bees nest. Not at all. Forgive me if I’m rubbing anyone the wrong way about volunteer spirit and all that. Like zero suggests, surprises do happen. :)

Last edited by Destry (2008-06-25 18:15:57)

zero · 2008-06-25 18:37:07

Kevin Potts

A leader would be great if he or she was a great leader. But till someone emerges, a team would be a big help. Unfortunately, like you say, it has been tried before and failed. I know that. A couple of years ago when all this stuff happened before, I wasn’t interested enough to read all the long threads. Interest and individual enthusiasm waxes and wanes but facts are facts and txp is less popular and visible than it used to be. When EE gets its new interface more people will leave txp behind. It all seems to be slipping away imho, and that’s why I do expect people to do something about it, that’s why I am trying to introduce some urgency before it is too late. The end is nigh! OK, OK, I’m joking now and I am the world’s worst predictor but if nobody volunteers to do anything about it…

I fundamentally disagree with your opinion about needing more websites. I appear to be on my own on that one but have seen no alternative yet. If you or anyone can convince me otherwise, at the same time providing a definite way to greatly improve visibility and popularity, then I am all ears. BTW, I don’t see you here as some kind of stirring it up. Thanks for your interesting comments and the one re Textbook too.

hcgtv · 2008-06-25 18:40:23

Destry wrote:

Oh, I was kind of kidding about Dean.

Though I joined the Textpattern community at the end of 2005, I followed it from the start. I was always interested in it, mostly cause of the template tags, it reminded me of pMachine. Since it was not stable at first, I went on to use Nucleus CMS.

Since Dean left, the face of Textpattern has pretty much stayed the same. You ask a question about why this or that was done, and you usually get the canned answer, “Dean did it that way”. No developer has come in and been a disruptive force, it’s almost like nobody wants to screw around with the status quo, it’s like Dean never left.

Gocom · 2008-06-25 19:14:28

zero wrote:

When EE gets its new interface more people will leave txp behind.

Or some ppl will leave from Expression Engine ‘cause people are individual, not all like the new design nor the new features that include quite hard navigation, compared to TXP’s simple two level tab system.

Many people don’t know what a cms is and that it includes blogging. If they want a blog, they will look for ‘blog’ and not ‘cms’.

Textpattern still is for experienced users: web developers and designers – not for new comers that want a simple one click theme and blog, with out knowing anything about CSS and XHTML. Textpattern is not about themes, themes, blogs, blogs – but instead about unique websites that do what they do: not just blog.

Or do we really want 200 pages manual and forum full with newbie questions about “how to use CSS”? ;)

Eventually no one will answer those on going “how to use design basics”-questions which leads community minus points. Outsiders might think community is bad, then TXP could lost the “great little community”-title.

Last edited by Gocom (2008-06-25 19:18:31)

zero · 2008-06-25 19:26:08

I agree there aren’t currently enough volunteers to answer all those newbie questions but come one, there are many web designers who haven’t started blogging yet or know what a cms is. Exclude these?

hcgtv · 2008-06-25 19:44:31

Gocom wrote:

Textpattern is not about themes, themes, blogs, blogs – but instead about unique websites that do what they do: not just blog.

You know, this a recurring theme, Textpattern is for web developers, not for newbies.

So let’s explore this angle, a web developer grabs the Textpattern core code, puts up a site for a client and pockets, let’s say $5,000 dollars. How much of those $5,000 do they funnel back to the Textpattern community?

Now, if we had a more user friendly Textpattern, then monies could be made by theme and plugin developers, they would have a bigger audience to sell their addons to. Support, well that could also be charged for, so that newbie style questions could be handled by those willing to answer them for a fee. A portion of these monies could in turn be funneled back to the core developers.

Textpattern is not going to die off because of Expression Engine, it’s going to die off cause we want it to remain this highly kept secret.

masa · 2008-06-25 20:01:01

hcgtv wrote:

Since Dean left, the face of Textpattern has pretty much stayed the same. You ask a question about why this or that was done, and you usually get the canned answer, “Dean did it that way”.

I got involved with txp about the same time (late 2005), because I was desperately looking for a CMS I could figure out easily. Txp fit the bill perfectly. No matter what others are saying, I still think its admin interface is very well layed out and easy to grasp – I don’t care about its use of tables either.
Recently I let a client have a go at it with only rudimentary instructions and they figured out the missing bits on their own without problems. Now that tells me something.

No developer has come in and been a disruptive force, it’s almost like nobody wants to screw around with the status quo, it’s like Dean never left.

I think txp users fall into two broad categories…

those that understand all its technical underpinnings (like yourself) and realise where improvements are necessary and beneficial – they want to push it further and I understand that.

On the other hand there are those that value the consistency of having a solid tool to deploy sites (like myself) and not worry about the technical aspects much, because they don’t understand them to start with.
I appreciate that things don’t change drastically between versions and I’m very grateful for the enhancements that our devs implement without mocking around with the general appearance. For instance Adobe changes menus/shortcuts with every new version of its applications – it’s dreadful.

Personally I feel txp is on track and doing well.

Last edited by masa (2008-06-25 20:01:59)

zero · 2008-06-25 20:16:45

I’ve been checking this SEOchat page and finding interesting results. I’ve only checked keyword positions for ‘cms’, ‘content management system’ and ‘blog’ so far for textpattern, wordpress and expressionengine dot coms. It seems textpattern is doing pretty well!

Statistics, damn statistics etc, but my understanding is that the other two are doing so well in real terms because they do NOT depend on the one main site. Their marketing is successful for other reasons, mainly their users I should think. Does that make anybody think twice about ‘consolidation’?

els · 2008-06-25 20:52:41

zero wrote:

but facts are facts and txp is less popular and visible than it used to be.

Is that a fact? Has there ever been done proper research into this?

It all seems to be slipping away imho, and that’s why I do expect people to do something about it, that’s why I am trying to introduce some urgency before it is too late.

When is it too late? Does TXP’s continued existence really depend on a large number of users that do nothing more with it than running a simple blog, using a pre-made template? What kind of publicity would that be?

masa wrote:

On the other hand there are those that value the consistency of having a solid tool to deploy sites (like myself) and not worry about the technical aspects much, because they don’t understand them to start with.
I appreciate that things don’t change drastically between versions and I’m very grateful for the enhancements that our devs implement without mocking around with the general appearance. […]

Personally I feel txp is on track and doing well.

I couldn’t agree more.

Honestly, I just don’t see the urgency of this whole marketing thing. Unless of course Ruud and Robert are threatening to stop developing if we don’t sell TXP to another million users within a month…

maverick · 2008-06-25 21:09:59

Fwiw (free ;-P). These are the odd, tangent, and occasional thoughts I’ve had while reading this discussion:

no other marketing tool replaces word of mouth
for most people perception is reality
buzz=tipping point. tipping point=buzz

leadership is key
leadership needs empowered teams
know your purpose and stick to it
critical mass has an impact
life-cycles end in dying or renewal
what was, and what is are not what will be.
its easier to talk than act

Txp is the easiest CMS I tried
for me, Txp’s strength is its tags; You could change the underpinnings to Ruby or Perl and as long as I had the tagging language I’d make the transition
In some ways maybe it helps to think of Txp (or any CMS) is a MySQL front end for web designers :-)
The people who help in the forums are an important strength

As Wet and Ruud are the developers, project direction, scope, and vision are their call. We can chose to buy in, or not, as desired

Not sure any of these thoughts help . . . . or even are worth sharing. But they somehow seemed to relate :-D

Mike

zero · 2008-06-25 21:16:14

Els wrote:

Is that a fact? Has there ever been done proper research into this?

No. I’m judging from my perception of numbers using the forum.

When is it too late? Does TXP’s continued existence really depend on a large number of users that do nothing more with it than running a simple blog, using a pre-made template? What kind of publicity would that be?

No, txp existence does not depend on that selection and it would be poor publicity. But as I have said many times, blog is only part of it, cms is the main part of it. Both need addressing.

Honestly, I just don’t see the urgency of this whole marketing thing. Unless of course Ruud and Robert are threatening to stop developing if we don’t sell TXP to another million users within a month…

Good to hear your opinion, Els.

Edit: those points are definitely worth sharing, Maverick.

Last edited by zero (2008-06-25 21:18:48)

hcgtv · 2008-06-25 21:18:49

Els wrote:

Honestly, I just don’t see the urgency of this whole marketing thing. Unless of course Ruud and Robert are threatening to stop developing if we don’t sell TXP to another million users within a month…

From the old Team Textpattern page:

Dean Allen: Creator of Textpattern and Textile
Mary Fredborg: Head of Making Stuff Work
Pedro Palazón: Head of Inventing New Things
Alex Shiels: Head of Releases Future
Sencer Yurdagül: Head of Releases Past and Present
Reid Stott: Head of Commercial Initiatives

So you’re saying that when Ruud and Robert become past alumni, then we should start to worry.

Got it…

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#133 2008-06-25 18:10:48

Re: Marketing TXP

#134 2008-06-25 18:37:07

Re: Marketing TXP

#135 2008-06-25 18:40:23

Re: Marketing TXP

#136 2008-06-25 19:14:28

Re: Marketing TXP

#137 2008-06-25 19:26:08

Re: Marketing TXP

#138 2008-06-25 19:44:31

Re: Marketing TXP

#139 2008-06-25 20:01:01

Re: Marketing TXP

#140 2008-06-25 20:16:45

Re: Marketing TXP

#141 2008-06-25 20:52:41

Re: Marketing TXP

#142 2008-06-25 21:09:59

Re: Marketing TXP

#143 2008-06-25 21:16:14

Re: Marketing TXP

#144 2008-06-25 21:18:49

Re: Marketing TXP

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