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#13 2005-12-27 04:32:04

squaredeye
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From: Greenville, SC
Registered: 2005-07-31
Posts: 1,495
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Re: Textpattern's Shortcomings and Weaknesses - An Objective Look

I agree wholeheartedly with Destry there. Well said.
Many cities or suburbs were built without careful planning. I for one am thankful for what appears to be a diligent, but mediated group of developers who are steady in their planning and careful in their progress.

onward…

m


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#14 2005-12-27 13:53:07

davidm
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From: Paris, France
Registered: 2004-04-27
Posts: 719

Re: Textpattern's Shortcomings and Weaknesses - An Objective Look

I agree on the pencil vs craft kit, yet adding some features to Textpattern wouldn’t hurt : taxonomy is key to managing any kind of complex content (it’s a key flaw most certainly), and nested categories will definitely be a major improvement (I am expecting much of the crockery branch there). Rights management would be nice, but true multi-lingual content would also be a plus.

As for textpattern turning into Drupal, there are worse comparison : even if it has a poorly usable admin side, I consider it one of the best CMS around here, flexible too and with extended capabilities textpattern does not have.

This being said, Textpattern is still the tool that gives you the best control over the generated code, though :) A real designer’s dream ! Just a few features on top of the existing to turn it into a content manager’s dreams… it’s not there yet.

Last edited by davidm (2005-12-27 13:54:42)


.: Retired :.

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#15 2005-12-27 14:23:51

andreas
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Registered: 2004-02-28
Posts: 453
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Re: Textpattern's Shortcomings and Weaknesses - An Objective Look

I’d also agree with Destry that too many features can ruin TXP’s clean “atmosphere”. I, for one, would consider it crucial though that TXP can handle hierarchichal content better. On almost all sites I’ve built so far I was missing another category or section level that can be reflected in the URL structure.

I’m hoping for subsections (as they seem to be in the pipeline) — this is, IMHO, one thing that is missing and I don’t consider adding it as feature bloat.

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#16 2005-12-27 14:43:46

alexandra
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From: Cologne, Germany
Registered: 2004-04-02
Posts: 1,370

Re: Textpattern's Shortcomings and Weaknesses - An Objective Look

> davidm wrote:

> As for textpattern turning into Drupal, there are worse comparison : even if it has a poorly usable admin side, I consider it one of the best CMS around here, flexible too and with extended capabilities textpattern does not have.

Hi David, can you give some examples on “extended capabilities textpattern does not have” ?

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#17 2005-12-27 15:05:49

neutrino
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From: East of the Diablo Range
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 134
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Re: Textpattern's Shortcomings and Weaknesses - An Objective Look

Since this thread is titled “shortcomings” I thought I needed to say that I’m not saying there are no shortcomings. But that’s sort of in the nature of these sorts of undertakings. There is no perfection though I recognize the quest and it is a great and a joyful one to pursue—that of creating or finding the ultimate CMS.

I agree with most of what everyone is saying here about content management. I leave the details up to those of you with more understanding of the bigger coding picture. I see only the system that TXP is and that not entirely as I’m not a coder, just a hack. I just simply, absolutely don’t want anything attached to my pencil that will throw off its balance in my hand, as I’m just starting to get the hang of having a CMS that fits in the hand. I’m so used to the heavy backpacks that most CMSes are that I’m still getting my balance with the pencil.

I also think the content management issue is way, way bigger than TXP and until we make more progress in other areas on the web with interoperability issues in general we’re just barking. I’m still trying to find ways to get a grip on my personal hard drives and web servers in terms of the content files stored on them. Software like Picassa and del.icio.us tagging are shining a light in this direction for me. I’d like to see interfaces between good tagging systems developed for TXP. I’m not convinced that TXP has to handle the content management side of publishing. Using a del.icio.us like tagging system the content can be pulled into TXP (formatted and presented by TXP) from that system.

Personally (in an ideal world) I’d like to have all content be “web” content and then permissions would be the next level working with tagging or organization and then we format and present in various ways which is where TXP excels and could lead the charge.

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#18 2005-12-27 15:35:58

Destry
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From: Haut-Rhin
Registered: 2004-08-04
Posts: 4,745
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Re: Textpattern's Shortcomings and Weaknesses - An Objective Look

For the record, I made the comparison with Drupal because it’s a bigger animal, a groupware tool, not because it’s bad. On the contrary, Drupal is probably one of the best in it’s class (though I haven’t tried everything), and that’s the point; TxP and Drupal are not in the same class, and I hope they never will be. Nor was I suggesting Textpattern doesn’t need some carefully considered improvements, so long as that’s what they are, carefully considered, and as far as I can tell, things are moving in the right direction.

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#19 2005-12-27 16:33:39

alexandra
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From: Cologne, Germany
Registered: 2004-04-02
Posts: 1,370

Re: Textpattern's Shortcomings and Weaknesses - An Objective Look

> Destry wrote:

> TxP and Drupal are not in the same class, and I hope they never will be.

Why do you hope they never will be? What are your fears?

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#20 2005-12-27 16:47:01

Mary
Sock Enthusiast
Registered: 2004-06-27
Posts: 6,236

Re: Textpattern's Shortcomings and Weaknesses - An Objective Look

Drupal has a less friendly admin interface, simply because there are a lot more options.

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#21 2005-12-27 17:25:42

andreas
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Registered: 2004-02-28
Posts: 453
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Re: Textpattern's Shortcomings and Weaknesses - An Objective Look

so long as that’s what they are, carefully considered, and as far as I can tell, things are moving in the right direction.

That’s my impression, too. And I a glad that the developer team seem to be just the right bunch who don’t rush in headlong. Careful consideration of new features and their impact on usability is very important, IMHO.

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#22 2005-12-28 08:41:02

davidm
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From: Paris, France
Registered: 2004-04-27
Posts: 719

Re: Textpattern's Shortcomings and Weaknesses - An Objective Look

Hi David, can you give some examples on “extended capabilities textpattern does not have” ?

Three areas in which Drupal stands out :
  • content management : while txp is a great website management tool, it lacks in some vital area of pure content management. Drupal taxonomy module is a great way to organize complex content. Not to mention unlimited hierarchical levels.
  • rights management : full control over roles and permissions, and access to content
  • cache management : the throttle system is really something that can make a difference for high loads websites. Plus you have granular control of what you want prioritized there (which blocks and what kind of users have to get priority).

This does not mean Drupal is “better” than textpattern, just that it has more features in some areas. This being said, as I insisted earlier, textpattern has no rival when it comes to controlling design/the final output.

Last edited by davidm (2005-12-28 08:41:29)


.: Retired :.

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#23 2005-12-28 12:47:49

Destry
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From: Haut-Rhin
Registered: 2004-08-04
Posts: 4,745
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Re: Textpattern's Shortcomings and Weaknesses - An Objective Look

alexandra wrote: Why do you hope they never will be? What are your fears?

No fears. I just see them as two different tools in my kit. David just did a great job, as usual, of pointing differences out, and I’m just saying I hope these differences remain.

Think of it like this, mom and pop Web site doesn’t need a groupware system to have a few nice pages and run a news feature; for that Textpattern is great…I can build up to mom and pop’s needs using TxP’s easy building blocks. On the other hand, Drupal would be like hitting the nail with a sledgehammer, and I’d feel stupid doing it. With bigger jobs, however, I might take a wall down with a sledgehammer happily.

In any case, call me Mr. Natural; I prefer system evolution over cloning (though cloning has advantages in the agricultural department) ;)

Last edited by Destry (2005-12-28 12:49:42)

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#24 2005-12-28 18:04:42

RussLipton
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From: Spokane, WA
Registered: 2005-02-17
Posts: 36

Re: Textpattern's Shortcomings and Weaknesses - An Objective Look

Did someone call for Mr. Natural?

I have many wishes (integrations with forum(s); mail post contents to subscribed users, etc) but only one serious unmet requirement: rights and permissions.

That is a major deal to implement simply and elegantly; if indeed, it can be done so.

I do feel this is somewhat orthogonal to the core CMS feature set and happily so; a separate architectural layer to itself. While it will complicate mucho things, I do not believe it needs to spoil the TxP-trademarked experience of designers.

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