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Re: Textpattern and usability : how can we improve ?
WSYIWYG interface option for the write page.
Yes, I’ve heard all the arguments against it. If I was the only person using my site then it wouldn’t matter but if I want to have a solution for a writer that has never seen a blog and doesn’t know the first thing about HTML, this is what is needed. I know that there are just a few things that they need to know to get an article posted but there are also a lot of quirks that they need to know about also if the site is referencing a CSS.
For users that are developing sites for clients, then substitute client for writer.
I know there are plugins for this but when a new version of textpattern comes out, plugins are broken. This should be available as an intergal part of the software. I think it is that important.
The dashboard is an excellent idea by the way. For those that don’t like it, maybe have an option on the admin preferences tab that will determine the start page for users that would have the priviliges to view that dashboard page.
Another option would be plugins for a dashboard, editor or other features that are not included in the main program but are still issued and supported by the developers.
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Re: Textpattern and usability : how can we improve ?
RenJonsin wrote:
WSYIWYG interface option for the write page.
Yes, I’ve heard all the arguments against it.
Have you heard the main one ? It doesn’t work.
If you can show one that does work (and I mean really work… that include with full Textile support, full browser support, behave nice with non javascript activated UA, produce pure semantic valid and standard Textile and XHTML code, small to agree with pay-per-byte and modem connexions, use the appropriate frontend style sheets, etc.) I’m sure that idea would get more support.
Another option would be plugins for a dashboard, editor or other features that are not included in the main program but are still issued and supported by the developers.
I think we need to define what each one mean by “dashboard”.
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#18 2005-11-06 17:03:06
- davidm
- Member
- From: Paris, France
- Registered: 2004-04-27
- Posts: 719
Re: Textpattern and usability : how can we improve ?
Yeah by Dashboard a lot of us don“t mean WP or MT dashboard… davidwang has a nice dashboard, clean and simple and Jeremie sumed up pretty well what would be needed there.
About WYSIWYG, I agree with Jeremie but Clients want something which looks like Word, no matter what the cost is in terms of standard, semantic markup or browser support… I truly believe quicktags + live preview is the way to go for clients. You can set custom formatting buttons taking your CSS into account, you dont get bad markup… and it uses Textile. I am no coder thus I can’t say if javascript librairies such as script.aculo.us or RICO can help do the trick but I thought I would mention them. I know AJAX is hyped, but it’s also nice…
.: Retired :.
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Re: Textpattern and usability : how can we improve ?
I would be the first one to implement a wysiwyg editor for some of my sites… if one would work the way it is supposed to be. Bad software doesn’t mean we are obligated to get stuck with it :)
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Re: Textpattern and usability : how can we improve ?
Jeremie wrote:
Have you heard the main one ? It doesn’t work.
If you can show one that does work (and I mean really work… that include with full Textile support, full browser support, behave nice with non javascript activated UA, produce pure semantic valid and standard Textile and XHTML code, small to agree with pay-per-byte and modem connexions, use the appropriate frontend style sheets, etc.) I’m sure that idea would get more support.
Sure they work. At least if they are designed by the developers of the application they are to be used in they do. They may not work under every browser but if it works in IE that’s all that matters to 90% of the users. Few end users care about strict compliance (or securtity). If they did, they would install something other than IE.
In the few instances where the editor isn’t supported or not wanted, there should be a provision to turn it off.
I think we need to define what each one mean by “dashboard”.
My vote would be an “overview” page that shows the pending articles, recent comments, that sort of thing. If you can make it flexible enough to allow the user to choose what is on there, so much the better.
Edit: I don’t want this to turn into a pro/con wysiwyg editor thread. I can’t develop one but I can provide a medium volume site with several authors using different configurations to test it with.
Last edited by RenJonsin (2005-11-06 18:19:22)
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Re: Textpattern and usability : how can we improve ?
Jeremie wrote:
I think we need to define what each one mean by “dashboard”.
All I want is something simple. I shouldn’t have given WP and MT dashboards as examples. I want a page to show me everything that’s outstanding at a glance. I think it’s useful both for bloggers or client sites. The main actions I would be performing on my blog/website are to write entries, approve entries, moderate comments if necessary and little else 90% of the time, IMHO. If we can have a single page to lead us to these actions that would be simply more efficient.
Of course, some people may not like a dashboard, but having the option to enable one would be great and would just make Textpattern stand out over all other CMS in the market.
Abt WYSIYWG editors, I’m not a big fan of those too. Like I said, something simple.
Last edited by davidwang (2005-11-06 18:28:17)
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Re: Textpattern and usability : how can we improve ?
RenJonsin wrote:
They may not work under every browser but if it works in IE that’s all that matters to 90% of the users. Few end users care about strict compliance (or securtity).
Ok I believe that close the talk on that topic… :)
Last edited by Jeremie (2005-11-06 18:33:43)
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#23 2005-11-06 18:41:49
- davidm
- Member
- From: Paris, France
- Registered: 2004-04-27
- Posts: 719
Re: Textpattern and usability : how can we improve ?
Dashboard might be closed topic, but the WYSIWYG part… what do you think about the quicktag + live preview option I mentionned above ?
.: Retired :.
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Re: Textpattern and usability : how can we improve ?
The closed one was the wysiwyg… come on, ask Dean Zem Sencer and Kusor to buy a windows computer and develop a windows-only software ? And us to use it ? :p
But yes, I think your idea was a good idea. The code is already here, he might work nicely. Still basic (no select+apply for example), but work-able.
But im my humble opinion this is a topic for a plugin request/developement, I don’t think we can sell it to the dev team as an important part of the first round toward better usability.
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Re: Textpattern and usability : how can we improve ?
@davidm: I would like your idea of a live preview / quick tag combination. Even more I would like a WYSIWYG editor that’s not working with (X)HTML in the background but with Textile so you would be able to switch between WYSIWYG and Textile everytime you want. For me textile is okay but I know many people working with me in a project that don’t really understand that way of editing text with textile and would like to have a more WYSIWYG feeling.
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Re: Textpattern and usability : how can we improve ?
I bet that if mobile phones and text-messaging would have taken off big time before the advent of the personal computer, we no doubt would have requests for plugins that emulated a phone’s keyboard (0-9) for inputting text to “improve usability” by “giving the user something familiar”. But that’s just my personal opinion. ;)
btw: I seeded a (simple) dashboard-plugin, I wonder how great the interest will be, and whether we’ll see more comprehensive dashboard-plugins: http://forum.textpattern.com/viewtopic.php?pid=84885#p84885
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#27 2005-11-07 03:10:01
- zem
- Developer Emeritus
- From: Melbourne, Australia
- Registered: 2004-04-08
- Posts: 2,579
Re: Textpattern and usability : how can we improve ?
Just to add another spanner to the works: the crockery branch already supports arbitrary markup types via plugins (think Markdown, etc).
Alex
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#28 2005-11-07 09:10:47
- davidm
- Member
- From: Paris, France
- Registered: 2004-04-27
- Posts: 719
Re: Textpattern and usability : how can we improve ?
These are both excellent news :-)
Thanks Sencer, Thanks Zem !
.: Retired :.
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Re: Textpattern and usability : how can we improve ?
Usability in the tool and in the things the tool produces seems a worthy goal. To that end, I think Txp web sites should be known for having great print styles and out-of-the-box PDA/phone/small screen(iPod?) versions. A stylesheet or stylesheet “drop-in” that covers the latest thoughts about printing would be great. Two articles on this subject are here and here. It would also be great if an appropriate CSS stylesheet for PDA viewing of sites were available.
By the way, if these things are readily (and easily) available already, point me in the right direction.
“Well, I, uh, don’t think it’s quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip-up, sir.” General ‘Buck’ Turgidson
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Re: Textpattern and usability : how can we improve ?
Preset stylesheets like what 6sigma suggests are probably difficult to implement because not many Textpattern users will stick with the default templates and styles. So once you’ve edited your templates your print and small screen styles will be obsolete.
I think we need to first take a step back and identify what Textpatterns’ main purpose/objective is first. For me it is a publishing platform. If it was a blogging software then the out-of-the-box styles and stuff like theme switchers make sense. But as a publishing platform I feel such features its not very necessary.
Then we also need to consider usability. The usability of the tool is the efficiency in which an individual can complete a given task with that tool. If we follow on thinking of Textpattern as a publishing platform the improvements to its usability should specifically be concerning the publishing aspects of it. Therefore, the useful suggestions in this thread so far IMHO are:
1. Improving the write tab
2. A post editor, not necessarily WYSIWYG but maybe just quicktags
3. I’ve already tooted my own horn with my dashboard idea – some of you prefer to call it an overview page.
And I would like to add another suggestion – improving the comments tab. I think we should add another view/tab to the comments tab like pending/moderated comments and more options for bulk editing and filtering.
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