So, when I want to create a good web app, where to start?

Joey · 2005-10-12 12:19:45

So, maybe it’s a difficult question, but I’m just interested. I only can design xhtml+css sites, and don’t know things of PHP and Javascript. But what if I want to create a powerfull, but simple and elegant web app, like basecamp or other products of 37signals, or ofcourse something like txp. Where do I need to start? Learning PHP off an allround-php-book, or something other.

Maybe you think: he’s crazy, but let me here, I’m interested :)

Last edited by JoeyNL (2005-10-12 12:20:37)

Whitingx · 2005-10-12 12:52:13

I believe that all the 37Signals stuff is done on RubyonRails

Theres a few getting started guides here;
http://www.ruby-doc.org/gettingstarted/

Hope this helps.

shishira · 2005-10-12 14:49:52

Turbo Gears if you wanto go the python way

ubernostrum · 2005-10-12 18:54:21

shishira wrote:
> Turbo Gears if you
> wanto go the python way

Nay. Django.

Joey · 2005-10-12 20:20:26

Hmm thanks you all…I’ll take a look at it…but I think I first need to learn some PHP or Python, don’t I…?

bizartist · 2005-10-12 20:24:34

Basically, pick your language (Ruby, PHP, Perl, Python, etc…), find a good web framework for that language (Django and Ruby on Rails are both well respected, depending on choice of language) and go to work. You’ll obviously need to learn the basic syntax of the language you are using.

I’m pretty much in the same boat as you, so I’ve been researching the options. The frameworks will make your life easier in terms of workload, but you still need to know how to handle the language, and how to organize your projects, etc… FWIW, I’m just starting to dig around with Ruby on Rails, and it seems to be organized in a very efficient and easy to understand way. I’ve been able to start getting the basics relatively quickly without hitting too many walls.

[edit]: I forgot to mention CakePHP which is in it’s relatively early stages, but seeks to do for PHP what Django and Rails do for Python and Ruby respectively

Last edited by bizartist (2005-10-12 22:39:40)

kennethlove666 · 2005-10-14 04:08:11

here’s another vote for ruby on rails. but that’s just ‘cause i’m scared of snakes. ;)

Joey · 2005-10-31 15:53:45

I’m going to dive into Ruby on Rails, at least, when I have some time :P. Pff I don’t like to learn a whole new language like Ruby, but I do want to learn how to make nica web apps… so I have to :P

Last edited by JoeyNL (2005-10-31 15:55:14)

squaredeye · 2005-11-01 01:52:14

You all are probably a bit ahead of me, but as I get into more xhtml and css I find I am getting more interested in learning the next language, are there any good articles out there about why one would choose one over the other? For instance, if you learn Ruby, is there any of that that might be applicable to the php necessary for textpattern?

Thanks,

matthew

Joey · 2005-11-01 14:22:00

I don’t know, but, correct me if I’m wrong, txp is a PHP script, and Ruby is not the same as PHP.

I haven’t searched for articles why to choose a scripting language better then the other. But I did some research what you can do with Ruby on Rails… you can make very nice apps with it. For example, ALA uses a Rails-crafted CMS, and BBC is going to use Rails for an online cataloge. Also, take a look at the Rails site to see some more pratical examples. Pff…this sounds nice :)

Edit : By the way…what is easier to learn: python (Django), Ruby (Rails) or PHP (Cake or something) and what’s easier to create web apps with?

Last edited by JoeyNL (2005-11-01 15:24:33)

Mary · 2005-11-02 02:39:49

I know a moderate amount of PHP, JavaScript and classic ASP (which I hate, but I still understand it).

Once you understand the basic concepts of variables, control structures and so on, its usually not very difficult to learn how another language does it, if the differences are not grand and sweeping. Which, Joey, I think is what Matthew was asking about.

Honestly, I’ve yet to find Ruby, even on Rails, “easy”. It’s been difficult to wrap my head around writing a “real” application, as well as all the special server setup you have to go through just to get it running to test it, never mind getting it running properly (i.e: not bring down the wrath of your host once your site starts wrecking havoc on the server…) on a live site.

I looked at CakePHP, and while the concept was interesting and caught my attention, I still find it odd. It will take me longer to learn all this special framework syntax – which is supposed to be ‘easier’ – than to just do it “the ol’ fashioned way”. I have no problems working with others, such as Smarty, PHPSavant, Pear libraries, etc.

I’ve only peeked at a couple of intro articles for Python, then decided it wasn’t for me either.

I think really it depends upon the person.

For instance, I have yet to learn any second language, but it isn’t for lack of trying or motivation. I tried French (many years, started in Kindergarten) and then Spanish, but eventually gave up in frustration. I may be able to figure out what some French/Spanish signs or labels are saying, but I can’t actually talk to you in either language.

I may not be the brightest person in the world – shutup ;) – but I’m no dummy. Its just not within my natural ability, so there isn’t much I can do about it.

My advice would be to pick a couple that interest you, and read the intro tutorials. That may help you figure out which suits you best.

ubernostrum · 2005-11-02 03:15:26

Which language is “easiest” to learn will vary a huge amoun from person to person. I regularly do development in PHP, Perl and Python, and of the three I found Python by far the easiest to pick up, and Perl the hardest; Python seems to “fit” my brain in ways that the others don’t, especially Perl (which I really don’t like, but work with anyway because it’s a huge part of the projects I’ve been doing the last six months or so).

My advice: dabble a bit in as many languages as you can, and you’ll find one that just “clicks” for you. And you’ll have basic knowledge of others, so you’ll be able to pick them up and work with them if you ever have to, and have exposure to a variety of concepts and ideas (for example, Perl will teach you how cool closures can be, Python will show you some basics of functional programming, etc.).

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#1 2005-10-12 12:19:45

So, when I want to create a good web app, where to start?

#2 2005-10-12 12:52:13

Re: So, when I want to create a good web app, where to start?

#3 2005-10-12 14:49:52

Re: So, when I want to create a good web app, where to start?

#4 2005-10-12 18:54:21

Re: So, when I want to create a good web app, where to start?

#5 2005-10-12 20:20:26

Re: So, when I want to create a good web app, where to start?

#6 2005-10-12 20:24:34

Re: So, when I want to create a good web app, where to start?

#7 2005-10-14 04:08:11

Re: So, when I want to create a good web app, where to start?

#8 2005-10-31 15:53:45

Re: So, when I want to create a good web app, where to start?

#9 2005-11-01 01:52:14

Re: So, when I want to create a good web app, where to start?

#10 2005-11-01 14:22:00

Re: So, when I want to create a good web app, where to start?

#11 2005-11-02 02:39:49

Re: So, when I want to create a good web app, where to start?

#12 2005-11-02 03:15:26

Re: So, when I want to create a good web app, where to start?

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