rc2 and 1.0

steventer · 2005-01-16 22:03:46

That’s why I jumped in here: I don’t want to start hacking away and modifying without knowing what’s going to change in 1.0

I’m sure that Dean will have something for us tomorrow :)

> andreas wrote:

> steventer, after Dean got ill a couple of days ago and then recovered, he said it would be Friday or Saturday. So now it’s Sunday — sure it cannot be that long… I hope. I hope. I hope.

I, too, would just like a list of features.

Jeremie · 2005-01-16 22:30:59

> Manfre wrote:

> I just wish there was a list of definitive features that will be in 1.0.

So do I. There are huge conceptual errors in pre-1.0 releases about navigation, categories, sections, clean url ; several heavy localization issues ; lack of several core basic features (files and documents upload and handling, backend customization, admin plugins, collaborative privileges and workflow, backend communication.. well we all know them, it’s half the forums posts, don’t need to get back to that).

It’s obvious 1.0 final will adress these issues and lay some serious ground for the future, but to be sure would be a huge relief.

Last edited by Jeremie (2005-01-16 22:31:36)

rickg · 2005-01-16 23:08:08

Actually, I like Textpattern the software, but I’ve gotta be honest – I’m concerned at the lack of communication about what’s happening and the fact that the last official release was in September. Reading that no one knows what the 1.0 features are makes me even more nervous.

On the other hand, I like the software and it works fine. So maybe I should just logoff for a few days… ;)

paularms · 2005-01-18 03:22:14

Over a week has gone by and we’ve had very little word on the progress. What’s the hold up?

rickg · 2005-01-18 04:24:34

wilshire,

Yes, yes, it’s free. But that does NOT preclude some communication. 1.0 is in feature lockdown? Fine – what are those features? If it’s basically what’s in 1.0RC1, that’s fine – just say so. And another thing – RC1 is SEPTEMBER? And no RC2 for four months? Does this mean txp is not a priority? That Dean’s a perfectionist? What does this bode for the future…? Many of us have been involved in efforts that started out in a very promising fashion, but that bogged down and fell farther and farther behind the state of the art.

I’m not saying this to criticize Dean, but to point out that if you don’t communicate out to the community, you’ll get speculation and people asking what’s going on.

Destry · 2005-01-18 04:30:15

The only thing I give a rat’s cahonas about is native support for clean URLs. Other than that I don’t care if it’s v 1.18 and it takes Dean another 3 months.

Nevertheless, I don’t think taking 5 minutes for a short feature list is too much to expect, and I’m sure Dean will summarize very soon.

Last edited by Destry (2005-01-18 04:31:36)

Andrew · 2005-01-18 04:37:45

rickg wrote: “_And another thing â

Last edited by compooter (2005-01-18 04:45:07)

rickg · 2005-01-18 04:58:15

compooter,

Sure, and you can check it out from source control, but you cannot download it as a release. And if you’re about to tell me how easy it is to check out then why hasn’t someone done that and packaged it up as an official RC2? I’ve done software dev for 15 years – RC2 refers to a specific build not “everything since build 40.” And, quite frankly, it’s apparent RC was declared prematurely – a release candidate by definition is something that’s feature complete with no known A, B or C bugs – a release that’s a candidate to be, in this case, 1.0. Not something that’s had 20+ builds since RC1.

Dean – if you read this, please don’t take it as criticism. I think TXP is wonderful software. But PLEASE… communicate out what’s going on once in a while and let us know what’s coming up.

To Destry’s point – I actually don’t care that much either – but after seeing B2 go this way it makes me nervous to see still another development effort not talk to it’s community. And I want TXP to move forward and stay relevant, not fall behind or lose people because they are not sure what’s coming up.

duffe · 2005-01-18 05:28:46

Not all of us are getting it for free. Some of us are supporting its development through Textdrive hosting. Others are contributing plugins and documentation that increase the value of TextPattern as a whole.

Now don’t get me wrong, Textpattern is brilliant, but the development process is terrible. It reflects badly that there is no stable release available for download on the homepage. It reflects badly that a release candiate in September has not progressed to a major version by mid January because, presumably, new features (themes engine?) are being added. It reflects badly that ETAs are continuosly not met.

Furthermore, is 1.0 actually going to be beta-tested by the community? Sure, RC1 & RC2 have been stress tested, but what about the new parts added to the codebase since. I’m worried that 1.0 may not be the stable release I’ve been long-waiting for…

I know there is no warranty on GPL’d software, but things here really aren’t good enough if Textpattern is to be considered “serious” software.

Sorry that my first post here is a bitchfest.

Method · 2005-01-18 05:45:00

rickg, you’re right to ask questions, and wilshire, you’re wrong to dismiss the need to ask those questions. Patience is always a good recommendation, but there’s really no sense in the way that Dean keeps a closed mouth, doesn’t invite collaboration, and generally tempts people to ask the potentially deadly question, “is this project dead?”

Here’s why: Dean’s slice on the open source business model is to provide hosting services and technical support based on textpattern. He also solicits donations from the front page. Labor of love or not, Dean is also “in it” for the money. In fact, that’s why Dean has maintained such tight control over the project so far, because he wants to ensure that textpattern remains a viable product for him to build his services on. Not a hint of criticism yet, because what I’m trying to point out is that free software is, or can be, a business. The success of that business depends in large part on its success at increasing the number of people using the piece of free software, and in making sure that those people are both generally satisfied with the product and confident in its future progress. Because, again, Dean makes money when people think that textpattern is so good that they want technical support from people familiar with the software’s inner workings, or when the quality of the total software “experience” is such that it creates enough goodwill to make someone want to make a donation or sign up for a hosting account.

Bad communication is bad business. Because of a lack of information, by which I mean reassuring words and displays of project leadership in addition to concrete timelines and feature promises, my confidence (read: faith) in textpattern has fallen, so that I have found myself revisiting Wordpress et al. (Wordpress, in particular, has great public relations). Now, one could respond “Texpattern is free! Youâ

reid · 2005-01-18 05:46:48

> rickg wrote:

> RC1 is SEPTEMBER? And no RC2 for four months? Does this mean txp is not a priority?

How about a little perspective? From MT 2.6x to MT 3.0 was over a year. From MT 3.0 to 3.1 was nearly six months. Right now, there’s absolutely no feature list available for MT 4.0. From a corporation with a staff rapidily approaching triple digits.

From my viewpoint, I’ve been using Textpattern 8.5 months, and have seen four versions during that time.

Jeremie · 2005-01-18 06:08:04

> duffe wrote:

> Not all of us are getting it for free. Some of us are supporting its development through Textdrive hosting. Others are contributing plugins and documentation that increase the value of TextPattern as a whole.

That don’t give us a “right to demand”.

But, beside the money aspect, I think the most important contribution is code. There are several real good developpers around TXP, but yet they don’t seems to be able to inject code, propose solutions, and so on. They have to freeze existing or future plugins dvlp because they don’t know what is going to be fixed, change, and so on.

I am certain that in a snap of a finger Dean can get at least 2 or 3 real (read professional) developpers who would be happy to contribute with code.

One example ? Clean URL. They are hundred of people having issues with it, and just on the forums we have seen dozens of better ways of handling it for months. So discuss it, implement it, increase the version number, release and be done with it.

And so on, and so on, and so on.

>It reflects badly that there is no stable release available for download on the homepage.

imho it reflects badly that it’s called a release candidate and not an alpha version, or an early beta one. Developement take times, if it’s not a production product yet for the purpose intended by the author it’s not a shame not to have a 1.0 for download.

> It reflects badly that a release candiate in September has not progressed to a major version by mid January because, presumably, new features (themes engine?) are being added.

I’m not sure about a major one, but no new version at all (well half one, not publicaly disclosed and requiring tech savvy skills to handle), yes.

> It reflects badly that ETAs are continuosly not met.

Well not per se, shit happens to all of us, but there are so little relase and ETA … :-)

> Furthermore, is 1.0 actually going to be beta-tested by the community?

That is the purpose of a Release Candidate in theory…

> Sure, RC1 & RC2 have been stress tested

Bug reported, but no fixes published. So it’s impossible to tell if the fixes are working for a large scale base.

> but what about the new parts added to the codebase since. I’m worried that 1.0 may not be the stable release I’ve been long-waiting for…

I’ve found TXP pretty stable so far. I’m not worried about stability, I’m worried about conceptual problems, and some bugs. And some lack of features.

Yes I know, features are not everything. So let’s talk one simple example… take a non-xhtml-guru (like you ‘ma, or grand’ma for the youngest) and put it in front of TXP. Ask her to write an article like she would for a newspaper. If she could, the result won’t be semantic and clean. Why ?

if she’s not able to read english, she won’t get much help from Textile and TXP help since it’s not translatable.
she can’ write proper introduction, inserts, post-scriptum (and the like) because there are no ways of explaining on the backend what class or id she has to use (or if you prefer because there are no way of assigning class or id to custom field output, because the size of the field entry is very small, hidden and not in the flow of the other writing area)
she won’t know what categories to use in a heavy and complex web site, or more probably she will use the wrong ones, because there are no meta data on section and categories, and no drop-down fixed choice for some custom fields.
you can’t leave her advice, tutorial or guides because there is no way of communication in the backend. You could use a external forum, or mailing list, but there are no ways of integrating these â

Last edited by Jeremie (2005-01-18 06:14:02)

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#85 2005-01-16 22:03:46

Re: rc2 and 1.0

#86 2005-01-16 22:30:59

Re: rc2 and 1.0

#87 2005-01-16 23:08:08

Re: rc2 and 1.0

#88 2005-01-18 03:22:14

Re: rc2 and 1.0

#89 2005-01-18 04:24:34

Re: rc2 and 1.0

#90 2005-01-18 04:30:15

Re: rc2 and 1.0

#91 2005-01-18 04:37:45

Re: rc2 and 1.0

#92 2005-01-18 04:58:15

Re: rc2 and 1.0

#93 2005-01-18 05:28:46

Re: rc2 and 1.0

#94 2005-01-18 05:45:00

Re: rc2 and 1.0

#95 2005-01-18 05:46:48

Re: rc2 and 1.0

#96 2005-01-18 06:08:04

Re: rc2 and 1.0

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