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Re: Textpattern's face to the public
gaekwad wrote #341253:
The demo site is deliberately on another domain / host so there’s a level of separation for security (along with other considerations).
Exactly; it’s another sub-site. Each sub site should be readily identifiable as part of the Textpattern project.
Each of the sites above is independent of the others, but there are multiple links behind the scenes for sharing of assets, security, optimisations etc.
Are common html elements like the header and footer repeated manually for each sub site, or are they derived from a single source?
I appreciate there’s a bunch of work that’s gone into this so far, but this redesign just turns me off and feels like a step back. We’ve got a coherent-ish brand established already, thanks to Phil’s work over the years, and I’m a bit baffled why this is being considered for retirement.
If anything, what we’re lacking is content. Tutorials. Docs. Examples. Themes. Comparitively, a website redesign with bouncing balls is a real head scratcher for me, and churning out some code generated by an LLM seems counter-intuitive to our project ethos of thoughtful, considered code that’s lean, fast, and efficient.
There is a lot to unpack here. The reason I started this thread is we all know Textpattern is an excellent platform, yet languishes in the uptake of new users. The question remains: why is it largely unknown to most? textpattern.com is where it starts; content & design have dated, and both could do with a refresh.
On the subject of lean, fast, and efficient, the current codebase is not a shining exemplar :p
The hero animation may not be your thing, but many appear to like it. I’m not that fussed if it is dropped, even if it took many, many design iterations to pull off (the opposite of churn).
Thanks for your comments Pete; positive or negative, all discussion is useful as design abhors a vacuum.
Others, please chip in. Eliciting commentary on this thread is like drawing blood from a stone…
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Re: Textpattern's face to the public
giz wrote #341259:
Exactly; it’s another sub-site. Each sub site should be readily identifiable as part of the Textpattern project.
It’s another site operated by me (or more specifically, my business), not the project. It’s operationally independent in that sense. It won’t be under the textpattern.com banner since it’s essentially public access and there can’t be any cross contamination should there be a breach. I don’t want any random drive-by miscreants doing anything as an ‘official’ Textpattern action because they’ve popped a lid on a .com property. This is the reason the demo runs on textpattern.co and it’s air gapped from any other project server or domain.
Are common html elements like the header and footer repeated manually for each sub site, or are they derived from a single source?
There are a variety of forms, pages, shared assets, and scripts – much of which is internal to the site and not on a public repo. The design decisions there were made by the development team, so I don’t have full insight as to why each decision was made but I trust their combined expertise.
On the subject of lean, fast, and efficient, the current codebase is not a shining exemplar :p
I disagree. It might not be to your liking, but the site itself is fast to load (see GTmetrix, Core Web Vitals, etc) and performant (effective caching). There are many person hours that go into this project from a CMS angle and the infrastructure, and making it all work together. There’s a reason why we have design patterns – because they give us a coherent look and feel, and changing one thing then means we have to change the other sites in the network.
We can agree to disagree. I wish you well. I’ll leave this thread.
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Re: Textpattern's face to the public
We’re invisible. Here’s proof.
Click this link and scroll down.
See where Textpattern ranks? That’s (part of) our problem.
We keep talking about redesigning our website. Making it prettier and more modern. I was nodding along too.
Then I realized something: When was the last time someone who’d never heard of Textpattern barely found our site?
Here’s what really happens: Developers duckduckgo “WordPress alternatives.” They ask on Reddit. They check sites like AlternativeTo. And we don’t show up.
We’re like a great band playing in an empty room while everyone crowds around a mediocre act on the main stage. It’s not about talent. It’s about being where people actually are.
What we can do:
I checked how AlternativeTo works. Their ranking uses three things:
- Likes from users with accounts
- “Good alternative” votes on other CMS pages
- Real comments and reviews
Right now, we barely register. Other systems rank higher because their users actively vote and engage.
Let me spell out the obvious truth: A beautiful website means nothing if nobody visits it. We can have the best code and fastest performance. But if people don’t know we exist when they’re choosing a CMS, none of it matters.
What if we spent the next month just getting visible?
Here’s what you can do:
- 5 minutes: Make an AlternativeTo account and like Textpattern
- 10 minutes: Visit the capital_P_dangit and Drupal pages there. Vote for Textpattern as a good alternative
- 15 minutes: Write a real review about why you use Textpattern
This isn’t manipulation. It’s making sure we’re part of the conversation where people make CMS decisions.
The website matters. But nobody will see it if they don’t know we exist first.
The best marketing we have is us. Right now, we’re the world’s best-kept secret.
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Re: Textpattern's face to the public
^^ This.
I agree, Robert. 100%.
I’ve liked, voted, suggested it as an alternative, and written a comment/review on alternativeto.
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Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp
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Re: Textpattern's face to the public
I think all those aspects are important. They need to work in unison. We can extol the virtues of Textpattern on other sites, forums, social media, etc. and get Textpattern added back to hosts’ automatic installers, but once people are guided to the Textpattern homepage, the website has to be engaging and convincing. For that it must be visually appealing, clearly communicate Textpattern’s benefits, and entice people not just to download it, but also to install it and start using it. The homepage is a key part of that, and going beyond that also what Pete mentioned about examples, tutorials and themes that help people do what they want … and in the process get hooked.
I agree with Gary: as attached as we might be to the homepage, to outsiders – those we’re aiming to convince – I’d wager it does look dated. The main four-point-x theme, likewise, serves its purpose but is not the desirable site most people might be looking to install as a starter for their prospective site. One can discuss the virtues of Gary’s design, but I think it’s a step in a good direction, and I think it’s more than about merely being pretty.
Would it not be possible to at least take a subset of a typical Textpattern site, so that Gary has some actual existing content to play with? e.g. make a temporary duplicate of an existing representative site, replace the users in txp_table with a standard_user, delete any contentious content / sections / drafts but leave enough there so that it realistically represents the remaining content. I can’t speak for Phil, but as I mentioned earlier, there may be sensible handover points between what Gary’s and Phil’s css handle, or it may be possible to carry over Phil’s fundamental groundwork into a new build structure that works for everyone. Sure, there’s plenty of work in all that, and also many hands :-)
TXP Builders – finely-crafted code, design and txp
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#90 Today 09:36:38
Re: Textpattern's face to the public
jakob wrote #341267:
I think all those aspects are important.
So do I, but, about ten years ago, txp regularly appeared in top10 cms choices. This alone did not help it to gain much popularity. Txp is a niche cms, for ‘lightweight and fast’ diy minded people. Every time I convinced someone else to try it, that was not really successful. Non-tech people looked for buttons to click (textile what?), youngsters were not even able to install it (where is this docker thingy?). It was like introducing TeX to Word users.
Would it not be possible to at least take a subset of a typical Textpattern site, so that Gary has some actual existing content to play with?
Isn’t that what txp designer account and dev line are for? Should we tighten it, to prevent designers from accidental live assets modifications?
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#91 Today 10:01:20
Re: Textpattern's face to the public
etc wrote #341274:
Every time I convinced someone else to try it, that was not really successful. Non-tech people looked for buttons to click (textile what?), youngsters were not even able to install it (where is this docker thingy?).
Me too. It’s interesting to note that, of the few reviews on alternativeto the reason we don’t have a higher score is the 3* review from someone who noted:
Installation takes doing. I gave up.
I’m not sure what exactly the stumbling block was. 3 years ago would have been Txp 4.8.8, which I believe already had the auto-create database option, so (presumably) relocating config.php was a step too far.
We know installation can be automated. We know there’s more we can do without requiring a few lines of glue script to populate the database with initial content.
If we think auto-installation is battle ready, perhaps after 4.9.0 hits the shelves we can contact some of the automated install places and see if they’ll do one-click bundles on their platforms?
The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.
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#92 Today 10:05:16
Re: Textpattern's face to the public
P.S. I updated the alternativeto descriptions of Txp too, and it was approved last night. Just added a few words and filled out the one-sentence short description which seems to show up in the Title.
Made the web link https:// as well.
The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.
Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp
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#93 Today 10:38:24
Re: Textpattern's face to the public
Bloke wrote #341275:
… so (presumably) relocating config.php was a step too far.
I persist in thinking that this manual database configuration step protects us from issues like that:
“I left the setup until the morning, and in the morning all my hosting was hacked. I never saw such a leaky system”
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#94 Today 11:18:38
Re: Textpattern's face to the public
giz: I am sorry. I let some unconnected frustrations come over in my previous post(s) in this thread, and I apologise for how I said what I said. I’ve slept on those & other things, and I wanted to say something without editing my posts – I made them, I’m accountable, and I recognise I was out of line. I hope in time you could forgive my tone. Thank you.
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#95 Today 11:41:19
Re: Textpattern's face to the public
In reply to wet #341277:
I persist in thinking that this manual database configuration step protects us from issues like…
Oh, absolutely.
The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.
Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp
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