Textpattern's face to the public

wet · 2025-08-25 19:26:14

giz wrote #340283:

Pull requests (whatever they are) can come later; some hand-holding will be required…

Pull requests are contributions to a source code repository that uses a distributed version control system. These are a common method of collaboration among geographically distant developers of a software thingy.

Let me be outspoken to an extreme degree (this is what I am known for ;) ): I would have less trust in a critical product (like a CMS) if its core distribution channel was wide open to anyone who social engineers its developers with CSS gifts /s.

Sorry for being blunt, but that’s how I feel.

jakob · 2025-08-25 21:52:16

giz wrote #340283:

I’m not sure what you mean. I find git & grunt utterly confusing, and keep them out of my workflow where possible.

I’ll be working in design mode for a while yet, figuring out whats needed and how to swing it in css (I don’t have the head-space for more complication). Pull requests (whatever they are) can come later; some hand-holding will be required…

If I can manage it, you certainly can :-) You’re already using GitHub for some of your plugins and theme frameworks, and I think your atomic sass / atomic docs also needs a task runner of sorts to compile (gulp it seems from your source code), so you’ve had some exposure to them already.

For your own projects and purposes, you don’t need git, but for collaboration it’s the ideal way to slot into an existing project. Your basic principle, when you get to it, will be to:

fork Phil’s GitHub repo on GitHub to your own account, then clone your fork to your computer for your working copy.
make a new branch in your working copy to hold your changes / amendments, and check that out on your computer so it is the currently active branch.
Now add your changes to the working files.
Commit your changes using whatever tool / command-line commands you use for Git. Ideally you’d try and make your (batches of) changes as self-contained as possible for better understanding for others of what you’ve done.
Push the branch with the changes to your remote GitHub repo.

(Fellow txp-ers, please add or correct if I’ve forgotten/misrepresented anything.)

Now you have a public repo with your changes in a separate branch. GitHub automatically detects that you’ve made changes are asks you if you want to make a pull request to integrate your changes into the original repo. Phil can then assess / peruse them, and any implications that may have for the rest of the Textpattern sites.

FWIW: Phil has considered having separate CSS for the homepage, which may be a practical approach to reintegrating you changes.

giz · 2025-08-26 03:13:07

Thanks for the pointers, Julian.

I tried to install Grunt on my Mac a few years ago, and ended up with nothing working; I had to do a complete reset / reinstall of the OS. Never again ;-)

.

Ahem; I missed reading wet’s comment. It didn’t go down well, particularly as I’ve only just started this venture.

I’ll be blunt, too; it has put me off the project entirely.

jakob · 2025-08-26 06:55:15

It would be a pity for the energy behind this to fizzle. Probably stating the obvious here, but working together in existing systems is always more difficult than doing things one’s own way. Add to that that the “playful tinkering” exploratory problem-solving mindset of designers / architects isn’t always the same as the more structured approach typical of programmer’s git commits. At least that’s often my inner conundrum: I’ll play around a lot offline, then try and structure my changes into sensible blocks of code updates.
Phil and Pete have working systems for the upkeep of the sites and have tackled a lot of the problems involved, for example in making the header bar work across different sites. It will need to work for them, but my pointer to Phil’s issue offers a potentially practical half-way house that might also be applicable for the header bar.

Algaris · 2025-08-26 14:09:42

@Giz as Jakob mentioned, it’d be a real shame if your enthusiasm for this project started to fade away.

I also totally agree with Jacob that there’s a reason why we work the way we do, especially in a collaborative environment. Git is definitely the way to go. It gives everyone in the Textpattern team a chance to review your code and provide feedback before anything is committed to the main project. As the Core Designer, I’m sure Phil Wareham will also be involved at some point as well.

Regarding Git tools, I’ve been using Tower. It’s subscription-based, but has a really user-friendly interface. I only use the command line when I need to, otherwise I just use the GUI. There are probably plenty of free alternatives to Tower, but I haven’t tried them out yet.

On a slightly different note (sorry if this is way beyond what you’re looking for), but I wanted to share my sympathies regarding your experiences trying to set up your development environment. After trying to get things working for a couple of years, I realised that it was too much of a hassle. I felt like I was stuck between creating my ideal development set up and the operating system. So, I decided to start running my own virtual Linux servers. Now, all my web development tools are separate from my operating system, and I set up a Samba share to the www directory where I can save files as if it were a regular drive attached to the computer. This makes it so much easier to manage everything without any conflicts.

Anyway, please don’t give up! The effort you put into learning how things are set up and work within the Textpattern project will be a great learning experience for you. Keep up the good work!

Last edited by Algaris (2025-08-26 14:16:38)

giz · 2025-08-26 19:48:05

Thanks for the positive vibes, jakob & Algaris.

The thing is, I’m not only aware of the rationale behind Git and community projects, I’m keen to learn its implementation (when the design is complete and ready for such things).

.

No one has anything to say about wet’s take on my intentions with the project? He simultaneously dismissed Design as ‘CSS gifts’, and heavily implied I have a hidden agenda against Textpattern’s best interests.

If I’m a ‘social engineer’, I’m a particularly inept and inefficient one (as I’ve been ‘at it’ since joining the forum in 2004).

.

My prototype, where I left it.

Bloke · 2025-08-26 19:55:59

Those playful dots are wicked cool, in principle, if the page weight can be minimised.

Love the idea.

wet · 2025-08-27 01:32:22

@giz Sorry, you are right. This was not my intention. Please forgive and keep up the good work.

jakob · 2025-08-27 08:04:31

giz wrote #340294:

No one has anything to say about wet’s take on my intentions with the project?

I wanted to stick to the good vibes :-) Speaking for myself, I can see wet’s point of view as far as the working process and inclusion of other team members are concerned. The rest went too far. And I value his opinion too: Robert has lots of experience having previously led the dev team and I’ve certainly learned a lot from him and his code over the years.

My prototype, where I left it.

Wow, you’ve already progressed quite far… looks mind-boggling to write.

Algaris · 2025-08-27 11:17:13

giz wrote #340294:

Thanks for the positive vibes, jakob & Algaris.

No worries. I didn’t want you to feel despondent and give up.

giz wrote #340294:

No one has anything to say about wet’s take on my intentions with the project?

I was being careful not to make things worse and wanted to focus more on encouraging you. I felt uncomfortable reading Wet’s reply, but his apologies are the most important thing.

While Wet was harsh, he did have a valid point. There’s a reason there’s a working process for the Textpattern project. It’s better to work within that process and involve the other team members, including Phil Wareham, as the Core Designer.

I understand your frustration. When I’m working on a project, I just want to code and get my ideas out. This is fine when I’m testing things (which you’re currently doing), but before I know it, I’ve coded a lot of stuff without committing anything. Then I have to backtrack and figure out what I’ve been doing so that I can commit sensible chunks of code that make sense. It’s an iterative process, and I constantly fight against the part of me that doesn’t want to think in logical structured branches, features, and commits, just wanting to create something.

Keep at it. It’ll be worth it, especially when you get to work directly with the Textpattern team and see how your code could be integrated into the main project.

giz wrote #340294:

My prototype, where I left it.

Feed back time. 🙂

Your prototype is looking very interesting! Those dots are super fun, but I noticed that every time you scroll, it resets the loop. It also feels better when there are only a few dots rather than a whole bunch.

Your animated logo is awesome! I love it, although I do miss the colour from the current design.

Also, this is purely a personal preference, but I think it looks a little flat. I’m a big fan of shadows, subtle textures, gradients, and buttons with raised edges and drop shadows to make them stand out. I understand you’re probably still in the blocking things out stage, so take this with a grain of salt. 😉

—Edit— I completely missed the yellow gradient you have. That does look nice.

Keep up the good work! It’ll be interesting to see where this goes.

Last edited by Algaris (2025-08-27 11:24:24)

gaekwad · 2025-08-27 11:46:34

On the topic of build tools on macOS – totally get you, that drives me up the wall with the amount of detritus scatted around the place.

An unsolicited piece of feedback for Git stuff on macOS while you’re finding your way:

github.com/apps/desktop

Free, works with various repository sources, and is ‘good enough’ to get you started.

My initial foray into learning Git in anger was to volunteer as a cdnJS librarian, and I pushed that hard for about 6 months in 2014…to the point I burned out after getting some abusive emails. Check the commit graph here:

github.com/petecooper?tab=overview&from=2014-12-01&to=2014-12-31

That first half of the year was mad busy, and then I imploded. I knew Git well enough, so it ticked that box as an experience, but I used the GitHub Desktop app for the most part and it did the job just fine.

giz · 2025-08-27 21:04:27

wet wrote #340296:

@giz Sorry, you are right. This was not my intention. Please forgive and keep up the good work.

Thank you, Robert.

jakob wrote #340297:

Wow, you’ve already progressed quite far… looks mind-boggling to write.

The css is all mine, but the GSAP animation is way beyond my js capabilities. My friendly LLM did all the heavy lifting, from comparing the pros and cons of GSAP and three.js, to abstracting my requirements into incredibly complex code (at least for me). If I was building this solo, I would still be researching how to do things on the GSAP forums, and taking too many paths which end up as cul-de-sacs.

Algaris wrote #340298:

…but before I know it, I’ve coded a lot of stuff without committing anything. Then I have to backtrack and figure out what I’ve been doing so that I can commit sensible chunks of code that make sense. It’s an iterative process, and I constantly fight against the part of me that doesn’t want to think in logical structured branches, features, and commits, just wanting to create something.

I hear you, ‘though I’ll be holding off on commits until I have a solid grasp of where the various class components live in the current sass structure (a single class can appear in many other partials, which is the opposite to how I do things). When the time comes, I can call on LLM to help tame the complexity ;-)

gaekwad wrote #340300:

github.com/apps/desktop

Thanks; it’s what I use. Simple enough, but I regularly confuse it (or the other way around) :)

Ev’ryone

Thanks all for the advice and comments.

.

I’ll continue with my prototype after a break; familiarity breeds contempt — don’t get me started on my Apple Music ‘Personal Radio Station’ (I listen to music non-stop); its turned tracks I used to love into !love.

etc · 2025-08-28 06:50:12

The main risk (as I’ve learnt it at the price of the ephemeral version 4.6.1) is beginner dev fat fingering.

Should we meditate on restricting the designer role a bit more, forbidding modifications of live assets?

giz · 2025-08-28 17:39:57

etc wrote #340315:

The main risk (as I’ve learnt it at the price of the ephemeral version 4.6.1) is beginner dev fat fingering.

Should we meditate on restricting the designer role a bit more, forbidding modifications of live assets?

I thought the procedure of making commits a repository, and subsequent perusal by devs covered this?

This smacks of ‘come here, fuck-off’.

Why are you suspicious of designers?¹²

¹ BTW this ‘beginner dev’ designer is somewhat experienced in developing css (which would be my core contribution).

² Have you ever considered that a reason for Textpattern’s lack of popularity might be due to the design of textpattern.com? I think Phil did a great job, but website design (particularly css) and public perception have moved on since then.

Last edited by giz (2025-08-28 17:41:56)

Bloke · 2025-08-28 18:16:29

etc wrote #340315:

Should we meditate on restricting the designer role a bit more, forbidding modifications of live assets?

Do we have privs for dev vs live? I can’t remember. If so, it does enforce a stricter workflow, so the Txp designer role becomes more advisory and can only operate on dev assets to showcase designs prior to acceptance?

Would the role be “promoted’” to operate on live assets if the dev lane was switched off in prefs? Seems a bit confusing. If someone is given the Designer role inside a Txp instance, they should be able to push their creations to the live site without needing a managing editor or publisher to step in and do it for them?

Or does it make sense to do this, since we limit Freelancers in the same regard: they can create articles but can’t publish them until a role of Copy Editor or higher does it for them. Is limiting designers likewise more consistent in this regard?

Last edited by Bloke (2025-08-28 18:18:15)

Textpattern CMS support forum

#31 2025-08-25 19:26:14

Re: Textpattern's face to the public

giz wrote #340283:

#32 2025-08-25 21:52:16

Re: Textpattern's face to the public

giz wrote #340283:

#33 2025-08-26 03:13:07

Re: Textpattern's face to the public

#34 2025-08-26 06:55:15

Re: Textpattern's face to the public

#35 2025-08-26 14:09:42

Re: Textpattern's face to the public

#36 2025-08-26 19:48:05

Re: Textpattern's face to the public

#37 2025-08-26 19:55:59

Re: Textpattern's face to the public

#38 2025-08-27 01:32:22

Re: Textpattern's face to the public

#39 2025-08-27 08:04:31

Re: Textpattern's face to the public

giz wrote #340294:

#40 2025-08-27 11:17:13

Re: Textpattern's face to the public

giz wrote #340294:

giz wrote #340294:

giz wrote #340294:

#41 2025-08-27 11:46:34

Re: Textpattern's face to the public

#42 2025-08-27 21:04:27

Re: Textpattern's face to the public

wet wrote #340296:

jakob wrote #340297:

Algaris wrote #340298:

gaekwad wrote #340300:

Ev’ryone

#43 2025-08-28 06:50:12

Re: Textpattern's face to the public

#44 2025-08-28 17:39:57

Re: Textpattern's face to the public

etc wrote #340315:

#45 2025-08-28 18:16:29

Re: Textpattern's face to the public

etc wrote #340315:

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