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#11 2020-10-31 13:43:27

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 9,832
Website

Re: Double opt-out, legitimate interest and GDPR etc

Great info, thanks phiw13. So it seems in Japan at least, that sending a confirmation email after unsubscribing is okay and doesn’t contravene any laws. That’s enough of a reason to consider how we might implement it – even as an optional workflow. The positive feedback loop it creates is a worthy expenditure of effort.

Not sure how to do that yet but I’ll play with some ideas.


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#12 2020-11-01 08:39:28

colak
Admin
From: Cyprus
Registered: 2004-11-20
Posts: 8,349
Website

Re: Double opt-out, legitimate interest and GDPR etc

I know I already said that opt-out confirmation is unnecessary but the method in Japan, /unsubscribe?UID, can only work if it is coupled with a confirmation opt-out email and another link, such as /unsubscribe_confirm?UIDhash.

As many of us rely on email forwarding, those kind of links can easily, knowingly or unknowingly, be abused. A hash representing the UID of the confirmation opt-out might be safer.


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#13 2020-11-01 09:41:28

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 9,832
Website

Re: Double opt-out, legitimate interest and GDPR etc

Opt in and out would be governed by a one-time token with an expiry to the same URL. Confirmation makes no sense otherwise.


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

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#14 2020-11-01 09:57:47

phiw13
Plugin Author
From: Japan
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 2,168
Website

Re: Double opt-out, legitimate interest and GDPR etc

colak wrote #326628:

I know I already said that opt-out confirmation is unnecessary but the method in Japan, /unsubscribe?UID, can only work if it is coupled with a confirmation opt-out email and another link, such as /unsubscribe_confirm?UIDhash.

I doesn’t need to be _that_method exactly, I gave it as an example… it could be whatever works for you and your system – a token as Stef notes, or even at its most basic, a form with an input field and a submit button, user has to fill in everything.


Where is that emoji for a solar powered submarine when you need it ?

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#15 2020-11-01 10:04:59

phiw13
Plugin Author
From: Japan
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 2,168
Website

Re: Double opt-out, legitimate interest and GDPR etc

Bloke wrote #326627:

[…] So it seems in Japan at least, that sending a confirmation email after unsubscribing is okay and doesn’t contravene any laws.

I am not aware of any strict legal regulation here, but companies are at their own initiative getting stricter and more serious in handling user data. I don’t discard some guideline coming from the bureaucracy, though.

More important, imho, is that the confirmation email has a reasonable peoples buy-in / acceptance. And of course, the decision should be left to the mailing-list manager, in our (Textpattern) case.


Where is that emoji for a solar powered submarine when you need it ?

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#16 2020-11-01 14:43:42

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 9,832
Website

Re: Double opt-out, legitimate interest and GDPR etc

Leaving the decision to list managers would be great. A lot of the decisions would be in the templates (com_connect) so only limited control over proceedings. If there’s any way to give some control to managers when they set up a list, I’ll do it.


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

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#17 2020-11-02 14:00:35

towndock
Member
From: Oriental, NC USA
Registered: 2007-04-06
Posts: 298
Website

Re: Double opt-out, legitimate interest and GDPR etc

Bloke wrote #326607:

What about an email to confirm your unsubscription has been successful, either a result of the single opt-out or (perhaps overkill) after you’ve actioned it from a double opt-out?

I find I’m usually annoyed by an email conforming an opt out – preferring an opt-out confirmation on the site itself. But this is an example of where options either way in this future plug-in would be useful and desirable. Laws and preferences may vary significantly for different users.

I’m very enthused about this subscription plugin Bloke. It will be an important addition to Textpattern.

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#18 2020-11-02 14:35:54

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 9,832
Website

Re: Double opt-out, legitimate interest and GDPR etc

Towndock: thank you. I’m looking forward to finishing the code too. Txp 4.8 has brought some fabulous little additions which make content filtering much stronger. My aim is to make this plugin as unopinionated as possible so you can build your own framework around it using com_connect and some of the newsletter plugin tags. Just enough convention and tag sauce to make it easy to fashion something useful.

In terms of opt-out communication, I agree it can be annoying when you do it yourself. But equally, if someone else unsubscribed you – by mistake or maliciously – then having an email triggered to say thanks for your custom at least gives a safety net and allows the affected person to resubscribe, rather than realising six months down the line that they haven’t been receiving newsletters. Depends what’s worse for brand awareness: someone badmouthing you for sending an email after being unsubscribed vs someone badmouthing you for not sending newsletters when someone else has removed them from the list without their knowledge.

Not sure what’s best. A double opt-out process might be overkill, but a courtesy message might be prudent. Unfortunately the system can’t easily be built for both. An admin either configures it to send out an email on unsubscribe, or not. There’s no way to do it conditionally if we don’t like the smell of the subscription request.


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

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#19 2020-11-02 18:23:20

towndock
Member
From: Oriental, NC USA
Registered: 2007-04-06
Posts: 298
Website

Re: Double opt-out, legitimate interest and GDPR etc

Bloke wrote #326657:

An admin either configures it to send out an email on unsubscribe, or not.

That works.

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