Corona virus

phiw13 · 2020-10-24 05:55:42

colak wrote #326521:

Although I cannot help feeling that this is a pre-election stunt, the FDA announced their first approved C-19 treatment earlier today. I also found this page listing the side effects.

Did you see reports about the effectiveness of that drug in the COVI-19 case ? For example. I seem to remember a Japanese newspaper article on that product – the conclusion was along the lines of “reduces the intensity of the symptoms in some cases” (article buried behind a paywall).

Bloke · 2020-10-24 09:47:37

This smacks of the ‘cure’ for the common cold. Take medicine and you’ll be better in 7 days. Take nothing and you’ll be better in about a week!

zero · 2020-10-24 09:56:40

Bloke wrote #326534:

This smacks of the ‘cure’ for the common cold. Take medicine and you’ll be better in 7 days. Take nothing and you’ll be better in about a week!

Well said! And I do think the tests being used are detecting the common cold kind of coronavirus mostly, thus giving false positives for Covid-19. I say that going on these stats (which are not a direct correlation but certainly give a clue).

Deaths England and Wales (covid-related) since beginning of Covid (265 days)
43,967
Equivalent for 1 year
60,558

Total deaths England and Wales 2019
530,841 (265,300 male deaths and 265,541 female)

Main causes of male deaths
65 to 79 years Ischaemic heart diseases 14.8%
(39,265)

80 years and over Dementia and Alzheimer disease 15.2% (40,326)

Main causes of female deaths
65 to 79 Malignant neoplasm of trachea, bronchus and lung 10.0% (26,554)

80 years and over Dementia and Alzheimer disease 22.9% (60,809)

My conclusion:

60,000 deaths from Covid per year are mostly in the elderly and vulnerable. The number of deaths are not necessarily all from Covid because it might have been old age, heart disease, dementia or respiratory disease that were the actual cause of death in many cases. Note how the main causes of death in the 65 to 79 age group total over 66,000 and in over-80s total over 100,000. So a lot of elderly people were going to die anyway and the true figure for covid deaths that exclude other naturally occurring causes will be much lower.

phiw13 · 2020-10-24 10:02:40

Bloke wrote #326534:

This smacks of the ‘cure’ for the common cold.

oh, no… it is an excellent for doping up the share price of the manufacturer.

Bloke · 2020-10-24 10:16:19

I read somewhere that the average age of death in the UK (I think, but its fairly unanimous worldwide) is 84.

That’s an average, so of course median. There’ll be outliers, those much older, and younger people that drag the number down – mainly those who were immuno-compromised already or had other complications (obesity, lack of general health and fitness, poor diet – the usual culprits).

But if I was compiling “official numbers” then it’s very difficult to attribute actual covid-related deaths with those who would have been bumped off by flu or a cold or heart disease anyway, as zero intimates.

The only ones that can be ‘officially’ counted are those who have tested positive and have died within 14 days of that test. Is that being rigorously adhered? I don’t know, based on numbers of ‘cases’ vs ‘deaths’ vs ‘tests’ but I suspect since there’s extra strain on resources in the medical profession, there will be those who attribute other deaths as covid-related to cut down on paperwork and red tape.

A largely unfounded viewpoint, just a hunch based on human nature.

zero · 2020-10-24 10:30:39

Bloke wrote #326537:

The only ones that can be ‘officially’ counted are those who have tested positive and have died within 14 days of that test. Is that being rigorously adhered? I don’t know, based on numbers of ‘cases’ vs ‘deaths’ vs ‘tests’ but I suspect since there’s extra strain on resources in the medical profession, there will be those who attribute other deaths as covid-related to cut down on paperwork and red tape.

A largely unfounded viewpoint, just a hunch based on human nature.

I relate to my personal experience again as I often do, so statistically invalid, but other people have similar experiences and added up they could well be more valid than the stats used by our ~~statis~~ politicians.

In our local hospital, from the start of the pandemic, I know one person and have heard of other people who were given the option to get their relative’s death certificate there and then if they would just sign a form to confirm that they died from covid. If they didn’t do this, they would have to wait a long time for that certificate. This would make funeral arrangements difficult etc.

Also a friend of a friend was tested positive for covid, last month. He had close contact with many of his workmates and the whole firm was closed for two weeks and everyone was tested. Everyone’s families have all been tested too. Only the friend of a friend tested positive. Everyone else was clear.

jakob · 2020-10-24 14:30:18

I’m sorry but I’m very wary of this statistical comparison and what “properly” counts as relevant, who’s fiddling the statistics to suit their corporate/political purpose and so on and so forth.

We’re talking people here, not numbers. If you actually know people who have been affected and struggled, people who months later have not recovered but before were perfectly healthy, people old and young who are isolated because others think its irrelevant to them / a scam / a nuisance / an invasion of privacy to wear a face mask or maintain a respectful distance, then the debate about statistics or “what’s true / what’s not true” becomes pretty irrelevant. It’s all fiddling while Rome burns.

Bloke · 2020-10-24 16:22:31

Absolutely. I’m not disputing the scale of the situation. And there are always, unfortunately, dickheads who refuse to help. I’m simply wary that while the pharma industry and media and politicians are scrambling for a “magic cure” (that may or may not even be viable long term given the nature of the virus that may mutate faster than we can control) for whatever point-scoring/profiteering gains, we’re not doing ourselves any long-term favours by hiding from this behind over-sanitization.

High quality and common sense cleanliness and a bit of distance is fine, along with greater focus on one’s own health and ownership thereof (the social model not medical model of healthcare). That will help minimise the risk to those who are in the demographic for this particular virus, and in fact everyone long-term, without compromising us all later. I’m still amazed how many people go to the bathroom at rest stops like motorway services and just walk out afterwards without washing their hands, or just wave them under the tap and leave.

At the other end of the scale, when everybody is forced to be slathered in lowest common-denominator anti-bacterial gel at every single public space, and has practically zero contact with any otherwise healthy bacteria, at what point do we as a population become anti-bacteria-resistant? i.e. become more susceptible to viruses that are not covid-related simply by not having natural immunity to things that are regularly harmless?

The whole theatrics over tracking people is laughable when people who collect the information don’t know why they’re doing it or how the data is useful. I went to the barbers recently. Each of the 5 stations – independently rented – had a pen and paper alongside it. Two columns on the sheet: name and phone number. Tell me: how is that helpful? There is no way on earth that if someone tests positive the salon/government can use that data to work out who was in the joint around the same time and therefore who might be affected.

Was the person who was in the salon immediately before the positive case there at the same time, waiting for the chair? And for how long? Or did they turn up half an hour earlier/later? And what about the people sitting on the lists that were sat either side of the chair this person sat in? How do they correlate?

The best they can do is hand over the names of everyone present on that day and they’ll all be contacted as potentially affected. As we know from social graphs, that will then have a massive knock-on effect, more strain on resources, more tests, more isolation for no reason, more economic impact, when 97% of those people in there that day could be bypassed if the salon collected the right information and were aware of its purpose to use it responsibly.

The countries that are doing well at controlling cases and keeping a lid on things are those that are switched on to data usage and how to apply it, and are then able to use that data effectively to make sensible policy decisions and public education. Not those that listen to soundbites and shoddily-collected raw numbers, then make decisions without studying the causes (*cough UK cough*).

Last edited by Bloke (2020-10-24 17:38:28)

singaz · 2020-10-25 01:28:25

Außerparlamentarischer Corona Untersuchungsausschuss

https://acu2020.org

singaz · 2020-10-25 02:52:34

WORLD DOCTORS ALLIANCE

An independent non-profit alliance of doctors, nurses, healthcare professionals and staff around the world who have united in the wake of the Covid-19 response chapter to share experiences with a view to ending all lockdowns and related damaging measures and to re-establish universal health determinance of psychological and physical wellbeing for all humanity.
https://worlddoctorsalliance.com

colak · 2020-10-25 05:47:38

Two columns on the sheet: name and phone number. Tell me: how is that helpful? There is no way on earth that if someone tests positive the salon/government can use that data to work out who was in the joint around the same time and therefore who might be affected.

We have to do this in our exhibition space. We include:

Date
Arrival time
Departure time
Name and Surname
Telephone number

We require all who enter the space to wear a mask and we spray their hands with 99.9% alcohol on their arrival.

Admittedly we still have a problem with some idiots who insist on keeping their nose outside the mask, giving the bs excuse that they cannot breath. I normally respond to that but advising them that they should not leave their homes as they are obviously in a very vulnerable group.

phiw13 · 2020-10-25 08:26:13

colak wrote #326553:

Departure time

Name and Surname

Telephone number

Out of curiosity more than anything, do you get real names & tel. numbers ? I remember in late spring in Seoul, after the first infection wave and rules were relaxed, the nightlife scene (and in particular the gay scene) was hit by a couple of clusters which proved very very hard to track as people, did not leave their real names in the register and apparently even muted their phones.

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#265 2020-10-24 05:55:42

Re: Corona virus

colak wrote #326521:

#266 2020-10-24 09:47:37

Re: Corona virus

#267 2020-10-24 09:56:40

Re: Corona virus

Bloke wrote #326534:

#268 2020-10-24 10:02:40

Re: Corona virus

Bloke wrote #326534:

#269 2020-10-24 10:16:19

Re: Corona virus

#270 2020-10-24 10:30:39

Re: Corona virus

Bloke wrote #326537:

#271 2020-10-24 14:30:18

Re: Corona virus

#272 2020-10-24 16:22:31

Re: Corona virus

#273 2020-10-25 01:28:25

Re: Corona virus

#274 2020-10-25 02:52:34

Re: Corona virus

#275 2020-10-25 05:47:38

Re: Corona virus

#276 2020-10-25 08:26:13

Re: Corona virus

colak wrote #326553:

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