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#37 2019-11-27 08:37:45

Destry
Member
From: Haut-Rhin
Registered: 2004-08-04
Posts: 4,751
Website

Re: Documentation: overview/orientation

jakob wrote #320271:

. . . avoiding revisiting too much general templating ground already covered elsewhere.

Where is all this general templating ground already covered? Besides here and here, which is all I’m focused on in terms of editing; the latter deserving a title change, most likely. As I see it, if we really want to make this simple and straightforward, those are the only two docs needed, just revise them to be more clear. Add photos, whatever it takes. We should probably revisit the idea of using images in docs anyway.

I was not proposing dispersed documentation by that outline, I was offering an idea to deal with it since dispersed docs seems unavoidable. (And regardless if no body wants to write tutorials about flat-file theming and porting themes, they would no doubt be used if written.) By having the ‘contents’ list in the Themes site, it puts all the resource links in one place, in context of where people will likely expect to find it, eventually.

As for the concept of theming, I think templating is clear as crystal to core devs and a couple (literally two) veteran experts, perhaps including yourself. But from what I see reading around the boards, and including myself, apparently, there’s a lot of confusion. That may not be because core templating is hard, but because it’s a type of theming process unique to Textpattern and needs a certain way to talk about it. That way is necessary from a functional standpoint. I get that. No doubt. But I think we will see that it also needs introduced in a way that bridges any mental models that new arrivals bring about theming a site, which is usually not more than putting a new presentation on the default ready-to-use structure. I see lots of websites that are just default Txp installs with the grey presentation. I’m pretty sure those people, often bloggers, don’t need more structure than that, but may not have the CSS knack either and would appreciate a quick import option for something other than sidewalk cement.

And this issue — will one theme package for site A work on site B — is a touchy one. I suspect that will be where a lot of confusion comes in, for example. And core is also expecting to add preferences, plugins, and maybe even sections? Heh. Drink your Spirulina and sharpen your pencils. We’re going to need more docs than we think, or continual revisions of them.

Though I could be wrong. As I’ve said before, I’m not the person to be writing tutorials about themes. And now I’m certain of it. I’ve never used a theme in my life. In fact, I’m a little worried this terminology must be pushed on me now in Txp. But that’s progress, I guess, and why I’m taking an interest here, to better understand it, holistically, as it progresses.

I truly look forward to reading your tutorials, jakob. I have only one request, similar to Craig’s: just put it in one document, please. ;)

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#38 2019-11-27 10:04:40

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 4,432
Website GitHub

Re: Documentation: overview/orientation

Destry wrote #320275:

I see lots of websites that are just default Txp installs with the grey presentation. I’m pretty sure those people, often bloggers, don’t need more structure than that, but may not have the CSS knack either and would appreciate a quick import option for something other than sidewalk cement.

Ideally, for these people replacing CSS should suffice. But the reality is different: sole CSS is not yet flexible enough to transform any layout into another one. Often one also has to change the underlying HTML structure, hence themes must be able to include Pages and Forms too. The drawback is that currently these assets are mandatory, so you can not install just CSS/JS via themes, but this might change one day.

And this issue — will one theme package for site A work on site B — is a touchy one.

This will probably come to its full power with custom fields release. You will be able to combine sections of different nature (shop, news, blog, etc) using a specialized theme for each section.

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#39 2019-11-27 12:50:00

Destry
Member
From: Haut-Rhin
Registered: 2004-08-04
Posts: 4,751
Website

Re: Documentation: overview/orientation

etc wrote #320278:

the reality is different: sole CSS is not yet flexible enough to transform any layout into another one. Often one also has to change the underlying HTML structure, hence themes must be able to include Pages and Forms too. The drawback is that currently these assets are mandatory, so you can not install just CSS/JS via themes, but this might change one day.

Okay, thanks. That makes it clear to me, then. There is no ‘skinning’ concept to this at all. Rest assured (and you too, Bloke) I will not pursue any such terminology in user docs. ;)

The drawback is that currently these assets are mandatory . . .

Probably more a safeguard than drawback, I surmise; especially as you say, there’s inevitably a little markup tweaking anyway, in which case you need to pass those templates in the package.

Destry wrote #320275:

We should probably revisit the idea of using images in docs anyway.

We have since revisited this notion, and a green light is given now for strategic use of images, albeit according to a few guidelines to be added here. Essentially following the docs mantra: ‘No more than necessary.’ ;)

Hey, that’s a good one, actually. We should put that as a tagline under the user docs head…

Textpattern user documentation
No more than necessary.

Phil!

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