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Re: I need a Textile logo
Destry wrote #296155:
Btw, does anyone know the process for creating a unicode symbol? I notice they did that for the Markdown mark, which looks like [M↓], but I’m also asking because of a different project.
Unicode symbols are parts of font types; I’m not sure to understand; how do you want to use it?
Last edited by NicolasGraph (2015-10-23 20:07:39)
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Re: I need a Textile logo
Destry wrote #296155:
does anyone know the process for creating a unicode symbol? I notice they did that for the Markdown mark, which looks like [M↓], but I’m also asking because of a different project.
I misunderstood the Markdown example. I thought it was a single unicode glyph, but I realize now it’s four glyphs suggested for used as a stand-in when the logo image itself can’t be used.1
jakob wrote #296161:
but if anything it’s precariously close to the tumblr logo. They use a (chunkier) serif lowercase t and a wordmark with a dot at the end…
Good spot. I had thought of Twitter’s old logomark, which they no longer use, but not tumbler’s. In fact every letter of the alphabet — uppercase and lower — is used in various logos in various ways and typefaces (sans serif, serif, script, etc), so there’s always going to be some “overlap” with something, no getting away from it entirely. I’m not too worried about that. But tumbler is an interesting situation here that we can probably gauge things by. If we pass this test we’re in the clear. There’s a couple of interesting things there worth touching on:
- the wordmark
- tumbler’s do not for using the period
- typeface
What tumbler does is use a logo mark that’s consistent with it’s wordmark — both employ a lower-case “t”. In the case of Textile, the lower-case “t” and dot, t., make symbolical sense (the way the syntax is used), and I really like that, but it’s not consistent with Textile’s name spelling, which uses a capital “T”. And in my opinion, a Textile logo mark like this T. doesn’t convey the language syntax as effectively. Which begs the question: why not create a Textile wordmark too? I mean, can we even say it has one? If not, the door is wide open and we can do things like textile or t.extile.
With regard to tumbler’s rule about the dot (can not leave it out on the wordmark or add it on the logo mark), I’m proposing the exact opposite: we can leave it out in the wordmark, and it must exist in the logo mark (the nature of Textile usage), so that’s probably enough right there to satisfy the distinction between brands.
But we could nudge that further with the typeface choice. We don’t have to use PT Serif (the bottom example in the image above, in bold weight). The interesting thing about the doublestruck glyphs (equating to Cambria Math on my Mac) is they give some clear distinction against other types of serifs.
At the same time, maybe we should downplay the relationship between Textile and Textpattern, since it’s really Textpattern that’s closer in product type to tumbler. Textile is a “markup language”, which is a different game of sorts, and that might be a reason not to use PT Sans too, because Txp is already using it.
With regard to offsetting the logo mark, even making the logo rectangular, that only makes sense if we consider the background colors as part of the mark, which then gives the relative sense of measure. But what if the idea is to just use the mark alone? Then that sense of left-alignment doesn’t actually make sense anymore unless we define how close something can be on the four sides of it, which is possible.
I mean, we could still say something in the spec like: top, left, and bottom must not be closer to anything than 1/3 the mark width (x/3), and nothing should be within 2x the distance on the right side. But for an immediate sense of effect, you’d have to have a field color. Should a color and rectangular field be part of the mark?
1 Not to get off topic, but my question about creating glyphs was in relation to the extinction symbol — making a glyph for it. So I guess what you’re saying, Nicolas, is you can’t create a single unicode glyph? It has to be one of an entire set of glyphs, or a trademark, or something?
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Re: I need a Textile logo
Continuing with the conceptual exploration…
By way of another forum conversation, I came across one of Dean’s old posts, which shows his forum signature he used back when the boards were first put up: text*, or text-wildcard, which meant to suggest all his text things: textpattern, textile, textism…
So having a bit of fun with that against the ideas so far, but using the asterisk in the subscript position instead (more like a dot), maybe it could pass as a wordmark. I even like PT Serif here.
Or maybe instead of a wordmark, it’s the actual logo mark, so you have the full name as a wordmark (textile), and the logo mark pays a bit of homage to it’s creator in a slightly different way. You could say the asterisk — following along with the wildcard idea — is symbolizing the “tile” concept (e.g., when you tile a background image as x, y, or repeat). In this case, we can think of it as tiling alphanumeric characters, which is not unlike what we do when writing.
Whatever the case, I feel we can say this for sure:
t.is sufficiently unique enough as a logo mark against any other logos (e.g, tumblr’s), and even PT Serif is fine.- If the logo mark is indeed
t., it should include the wider right margin, but the background color is optional (specs can be created for both situations). - If the logo mark is
text*— regardless if asterisk is superscript or subscript position — a wider right margin is not needed. - If we include a wordmark (needed?) it should be written out full,
textile(but should it be capitalized?)
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Re: I need a Textile logo
Just wanted to say, I like what you’ve done and think your simplest textile box and wider t. with box are fine – heck you can draw the logo with textile :-) The star idea is more cryptic than the dot, but the dot has a reason so “understanding textile” also means you “understand” the logo. I don’t think any of the outline versions are as clear or that they add anything.
Seen together, it looks a little odd that the boxes aren’t the same height – I can see that’s got to do with the low height of the t versus the l – but as one will be using one or the other but not both together, it’s not important.
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Re: I need a Textile logo
Last visual from me here. Next stop is the textile-mark GitHub repo.
Although I’ve added a full wordmark here, I won’t add that to the repo yet because it probably needs more discussion with regard to the lowercase “t”. It can always be added later if/when it’s clear a wordmark is even useful. I don’t need a full wordmark for my essay, so I can move on with the repo at this point. But, again, we can always add it later as a mark option, just like tumblr offers.
Regarding the icon… I noticed that Dustin Curtis’ Markdown mark spec doesn’t give a reference for a basis of value “x”, and there should be one in relation to the typeface, otherwise how do you know what the relative scale of “x” is? So I’ve done that for the textile mark, using what seemed like the obvious choice — the stem width of the “t”.
As noted in the image:
- x = width of stem for a lower-case “t” set in PT Serif, bold weight.
- 2x = top, left, and bottom padding between letter mark and field edge
- 6x = right padding, a larger space to suggest actual textile usage
Calculations for the images shown were based on an initial 96pt font size, which in that case:
- x ≅ 12px
- 2x = 24px
- 6x = 72px.
It doesn’t matter what font size is used because the typeface scales proportionally. At this point it should only be necessary to create a vector version and then various .png sizes can be created from that, I guess.
But I don’t use Adobe applications (too expensive and bloated for my wimpy laptop), and I have no clue where to start with creating SVGs, so this is where I’m hoping the graphics-inclined will contribute to the repo.
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Re: I need a Textile logo
Destry wrote #296268:
Last visual from me here. Next stop is the textile-mark GitHub repo.
Thank you.
What about the ‘border radius’?
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Re: I need a Textile logo
NicolasGraph wrote #296274:
What about the ‘border radius’?
Ah, the radius of the the field corners, yes, good call. I’ll see if my app will inform me of that. If not, maybe someone else can report what that might be if they create a vector version.
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Re: I need a Textile logo
Here are some vector versions of your mark as AI, EPS, PDF, PNG and SVG (adobe exports so maybe not brilliantly clean) in the two colour version you have and in knockout versions in flat black and flat white against a transparent background. The construction drawing is there too for those who wish to play further themselves and looks like this:
The only change I made was not to give the top of the main word mark quite as much space as the bottom for a bit more vertical balance, so the top margin is 1.5 times the stem width.
EDIT: Superceded: see the Github repo for the latest version
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Re: I need a Textile logo
jakob wrote #296280:
The only change I made was not to give the top of the main word mark quite as much space as the bottom for a bit more vertical balance, so the top margin is 1.5 times the stem width.
Looks great, and I don’t mind the top padding change on the wordmark.
There is another change, though. The left padding is supposed to be measured from the left edge of the crossbar instead of the stem. I think the uniformity should be retained, no? Otherwise the left/right padding is not equal on the wordmark and the icon ends up with three different paddings.
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Re: I need a Textile logo
Btw, I’m guessing people who use the wordmark might want the option of no field color. So for that one, specifically, it might be good to add a spec that removes the field and indicates the padding as margin instead from other possible surrounding elements. You see? tumblr does the same thing with their tumblr. wordmark, if I remember correctly, giving the option.
Last edited by Destry (2015-10-28 11:23:33)
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Re: I need a Textile logo
Jakob, GugUser… do you guys have GitHub accounts I can reference?
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#36 2015-10-28 12:10:15
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Re: I need a Textile logo
@jakob
I like your changes. The left margin is much better so (optical alignment). In my opinion, the right margin is to big. I think a two time margin would be enough.
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