Textpattern CMS support forum
You are not logged in. Register | Login | Help
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Clients vs. Users
Textpattern has two audiences, the web developer and the end user.
The developer wants all these nifty time saving scripts, plugins, what have you.
The end user just wants to put up a simple site, and post about their pet turtle.
For me – I fall into the end user camp – Textpattern has all I really need, aside from import/export of “Themes”.
Do I need unlimited custom fields? No, can’t say that I do.
Do web developers need unlimited custom fields, a resounding yes is heard.
I’ve been out of the loop for 4 years, happily running Textpattern 4.4.1 on my sites, and I could continue just fine running 4 year old code. Not a single problem to report, no PHP errors other than when there’s a version upgrade, no break-ins, nada.
So here I am, an end user, sell me on the next Textpattern version and why unlimited custom fields will help me write a better story about Elmo, my pet turtle.
We Love TXP . TXP Themes . TXP Tags . TXP Planet . TXP Make
Offline
Re: Clients vs. Users
hcgtv wrote #292465:
why unlimited custom fields will help me write a better story about Elmo, my pet turtle.
Because you’ll be able to attach custom fields to the photos of Elmo too. His weight, height, dietary requirements, and batting average at the time the photo was taken, displaying those alongside each photo using the same tags as with articles. A gallery charting Elmo’s meteoric rise to Turtledom with stats, all in one article.
Because you’ll be able to attach custom fields to Sections. And Categories. Adding meta data to elements beyond articles means fewer markup hacks and fewer plugins. Add labels or introductions to your Sections for display on each page. Section custom fields could include a colour picker if you so desired. If you employed <txp:custom_field type="section" name="palette" /> in a <style> rule on your <body> tag you can apply the colour scheme to all articles in that Section. Contrived example, maybe? Maybe not. No need to necessarily learn CSS to change a few things. A poor man’s theme system could be constructed, putting the user in control by merely changing field values.
I take your point about it being more a corporate site tool than a weekend blogger tool. At the opposite end of the spectrum, Clients don’t usually need comments. Users might. We have comments baked in. Yes they’re badly implemented, but we have them for the good of one group and possible expense of another. We already have custom fields, so axing them doesn’t make sense. Going the other way: expansion, does.
It’s not necessarily the “unlimited” part of the custom fields that’s the exciting bit, it’s being able to enrich your site with content snippets of different types and flavours: radios, checkboxes, select lists, dates, textareas. Plugins can even weigh in and furnish their own widgets. It just adds so much to the experience.
One notion I’ve tentatively incorporated is the idea of a “family” of fields. An intra-content-type group if you will. It’s freeform text so you can effectively tag a field with something of your own choosing. Or leave it blank, your call. Although it may yet do, the core will probably do nothing with this field. It’ll just be there waiting like a coiled panther for a plugin to, well, with a few lines of code you could filter the list of custom fields on the fly in response to changing article Section. Or image Category. If current category === family then it’s displayed. So photos of Elmo could potentially require a different set of meta data to photos of your giraffe, Eric.
It’s just about storing, slicing and dicing meta data. What you do with it is up to your imagination.
The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.
Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp
Offline
Re: Clients vs. Users
Personally I never know what I need until I figure out I need it.
Offline
Re: Clients vs. Users
Bloke wrote #292466:
I take your point about it being more a corporate site tool than a weekend blogger tool. At the opposite end of the spectrum, Clients don’t usually need comments. Users might. We have comments baked in. Yes they’re badly implemented, but we have them for the good of one group and possible expense of another.
Off with their heads I say! No, really, ax the comments.
We already have custom fields, so axing them doesn’t make sense. Going the other way: expansion, does.
I’m fine with 10, never seen a need for more, that was the point of my post. But I hear you, you make an excellent point about expanding the capabilities of Textpattern.
The current TXP tag engine has more than enough oomph to power a normal website. Like how Phil has the default template setup – Home | About | Articles, that’s plenty for 80% percent of the web populace. Need more? Add a section, it automatically gets added to the top navigation bar, dang how neat, now Elmo has his own Blog.
What’s lacking in this equation is the out of box experience, the packaging.
The packaging, IMHO, has been overlooked or not deemed important because Textpattern has over the years been steered and primarily used by web developers. It’s like handing me a CD of Debian’s Netinst, I know what to do with it, someone else would be better suited with an Ubuntu DVD with all the fancy trimmings.
Textpattern, as you, I, and everyone else has been running it, will never become anything more than a niche product without the packaging. The whole package, nice home page with no broken links and what’s with the cheap looking ads along the left sidebar. Docs that are more suited to Here’s how you give Elmo his own blog type of first run, go to instructions. How about some themes to pick from? Oh, here’s some popular plugins, click here to install them. Too much to ask?
Basically, we’re screwed, because there’s nobody around to make the tough calls like, From Textpattern 4.7 onwards, no more f*cking comments, too harsh?
Business as usual, what’s Oliver doing today?
We Love TXP . TXP Themes . TXP Tags . TXP Planet . TXP Make
Offline
#5 2015-07-02 02:53:28
- GugUser
- Member
- From: Quito (Ecuador)
- Registered: 2007-12-16
- Posts: 1,473
Re: Clients vs. Users
As an example a simple website, but where are a total of 34 custom fields used in various sections for the standardized data entry and the later output according to schema.org.
Input for courses
Input for places
Offline
Re: Clients vs. Users
GugUser wrote #292476:
As an example a simple website, but where are a total of 34 custom fields used in various sections for the standardized data entry and the later output according to schema.org.
That’s a perfect example of the Clients vs. Users point I’m trying to make, that looks to me like a Business site, not en end user site.
We Love TXP . TXP Themes . TXP Tags . TXP Planet . TXP Make
Offline
Re: Clients vs. Users
Good conversation topic!
hcgtv wrote #292465:
The end user just wants to put up a simple site, and post about their pet turtle.
So here I am, an end user, sell me on the next Textpattern version and why unlimited custom fields will help me write a better story about Elmo, my pet turtle.
The problem there is that you are not the only representative of a current end user. There’s a range of them, all having different contexts and needs. Also, there is a kind of end user that Txp typically doesn’t have but should hope to get: employees in a business who’s content director has (miraculously) chosen Textpattern. That’s the rainbow playground Txp should have it’s sights on. It will never get there catering to designer whims and soccer moms/dads.
I’d stop giving a minute of my time to this community if I thought there was no development ambition beyond version 4.4.1. I’d go look at ProcessWire, PencilBlue, or even CraftCMS (at cost) where progressive support of creating structured content solutions was key.
But that’s just me.
michaelkpate wrote #292473:
Personally I never know what I need until I figure out I need it.
Ditto. But I’d like to know the tool has the capability for when it’s figure it out.
Then again, no system is the answer for every situation. But damn, the time investment needed for just one is quite a lot for most people. So get them to spend time on Textpattern and they might spend money on it too. That rainbow playground again.
Offline
Re: Clients vs. Users
I should probably say that I sit in different end user camps, which influences my viewpoint. I have my own site which needs very little. But I also work with or counsel other situations where projects need more in terms of content types and collaboration. I’d like to think Txp is up for the challenge, cuz… I kinda like it.
Offline
Re: Clients vs. Users
Destry wrote #292485:
The problem there is that you are not the only representative of a current end user. There’s a range of them, all having different contexts and needs.
I hear you, I want to represent those who want to move away from the Social Media constraints of Facebook, or are tired of the constant WordPress updates screwing up their sites. Those willing to learn a little HTML, CSS and the elegant Textpattern Template Tags.
There’s a big enough pie out there, we don’t have to have a one size fits all Textpattern.
We Love TXP . TXP Themes . TXP Tags . TXP Planet . TXP Make
Offline
Re: Clients vs. Users
hcgtv wrote #292465:
I’ve been out of the loop for 4 years, happily running Textpattern 4.4.1 on my sites, and I could continue just fine running 4 year old code. Not a single problem to report, no PHP errors other than when there’s a version upgrade, no break-ins, nada.
4.4.1 has some security vulnerabilities. You should upgrade your installs, Bert.
Offline
Re: Clients vs. Users
hcgtv wrote #292465:
The end user just wants to put up a simple site, and post about their pet turtle.
For me – I fall into the end user camp – Textpattern has all I really need, aside from import/export of “Themes”.
Do I need unlimited custom fields? No, can’t say that I do.
[…]
So here I am, an end user, sell me on the next Textpattern version and why unlimited custom fields will help me write a better story about Elmo, my pet turtle.
Why? You don’t need unlimited custom fields. Until you do. If you do. Same reason why I don’t need to know Spanish verb tables. Until I move to Spain, then it’ll be handy.
Honestly – if you just want to write, try Ghost. I don’t mean that dismissively, but that’s the right tool for a tech who wants to just write.
Offline
Re: Clients vs. Users
gaekwad wrote #292493:
4.4.1 has some security vulnerabilities. You should upgrade your installs, Bert.
I’m upgrading my sites to 4.5.7, did one already, the rest should be done soon enough.
We Love TXP . TXP Themes . TXP Tags . TXP Planet . TXP Make
Offline