[request] Save As, Save New button for 4.5+

Pat64 · 2013-10-21 12:03:14

Hi Jukka ;)

if rah_dupliquer works fine (off topic) I can’t make rah_beacon working (Textpattern Warning: this tag doesn’t exist…).

TXP 4.6.dev and <txp:head /> tag (calling a head form)

Gocom · 2013-10-21 13:28:37

Rah_beacon works just fine, but only on very specific revisions of Textpattern, since it targets a moving branch. Rah_beacon commits released before today do not work with Textpattern revisions starting from when Adapters were added, and commits from today, require those adapters.

Last edited by Gocom (2013-10-21 13:29:25)

mrdale · 2013-10-21 15:06:09

Gocom wrote: That is debatable; the whole duplication is a secondary action (once a five years event for me) and the whole point of the plugin is to be buttonless and to add a keyboard shortcut. If you want a button, the plugin isn’t that. That’s why I voluntarily tried to help and shared the actual code you will need to save the form as a new article.

Thanks. You’re right. It does one thing quite nicely, if you already know what to look for, thanks for sharing it. We’ll see how i do.

The code is gonna get beat up pretty good and look like it got in a car accident, but I gotta hack a button into it.

…But “Save New” or “Duplicate” really needs to be in core. It’s fundamental to any kind of CMS. Frankly I find the continued refusal to put it in, kind of comical at this point.

colak · 2013-10-21 16:44:44

mrdale wrote:

…But “Save New” or “Duplicate” really needs to be in core.

+1 in sight of what I hope to be unlimited custom fields. The duplicate button for me would serve those for further editing.

I think that there is a confusion regarding the button. It could be that it does not “save new” as such but picks up the info in the fields and places it in a new “unsaved” write tab… The title could be left out for me as well as the body and excerpt fields. I’m open to ideas from those who like the idea. :)

ps… having said that, Jukka, many thanks for the plugin.

philwareham · 2013-10-22 08:38:33

The only way I’d see a duplication feature working as good UX would be from the article list page somehow (possibly the multi-select widget). I hope we won’t be adding more buttons and crap like that to the write page. Especially since the custom field stuff will probably introduce more options onto the write page anyway.

When I return to looking at the admin side in due course I’ll be looking at how we reduce clutter everywhere. I think as a counter to CMS such as WordPress which add ever more options with each release, there’s a space for Textpattern to differentiate itself as a clutter-free, tidy system.

Gocom · 2013-10-22 14:17:44

r5583 adds option to duplicate articles using a dedicated ‘Duplicate’ multi-edit option. This might get removed before stable release, if guys feel that maintaining it takes too much time with the upcoming relational data stuff. With the new custom fields, you would have to duplicate them one by one too, adding more lines to the code. ORM could help with that, but we don’t have one.

This duplication won’t be magic-compatible with plugins; your article associated relational data create to other tables by plugins, won’t be magically replicated. That would require additional code from the plugin.

mrdale · 2013-10-22 15:54:28

philwareham wrote: The only way I’d see a duplication feature working as good UX would be from the article list page…

Respect and all, but I strongly disagree. I have a great many site editors who like to tinker with alternate versions of content without having to retype a plethora of information into custom fields, and duplicate other settings.

Honestly, it baffles me that I have to explain this again… Every application you have for content creation on your computer has a “save as” menu item… ie make some changes and save another version. People know what it is and how it works because it’s been accepted UX for literally two decades.

Imagine if on the desktop you forced users select filenames from a file open dialog and choose files to make duplicates of. That’d just be bass-ackward.

I’m all for reducing clutter, I think you’ve done a really top notch job with TXP UX so far, transformed it actually, but this is a feature request that should not even need to be made, it’s a glaring omission in TXP.

I’m not like Jukka, in that I don’t use this feature once in 5 years. I use it on a daily basis. Many site editors on sites that use it on a daily basis too. In fact they call ask what happened to the “save new” (upm) button when it disappears because of TXP UI changes.

This time when it started exhibiting flaky behavior due to the new save mechanism on the write page I asked myself for the hundredth time “why is this not core?” and that maybe I needed to resurrect that discussion. So here we are again.

Gocom · 2013-10-22 16:55:38

If we add additional buttons to the write panel itself, straight away you would start to argue why there isn’t delete or this and that button too. All these actions are secondary.

If you need duplication on daily basis, I could argue that you are doing something, as you put it, bass-ackward. Your articles should be easy to format; articles themselves should never contain any code, or duplicate elements. If you need template tags in your articles, then there are shortcomings in how you have built your templates and your site. Same goes if you need to create multiple articles tightly crafted to populate a single page.

mrdale wrote:

Imagine if on the desktop you forced users select filenames from a file open dialog and choose files to make duplicates of. That’d just be bass-ackward.

That’s exactly how file duplication works via file browser; you select it and duplicate it. On Mac OS there is menu item and keyboard shortcut for it too… and that’s how I create copies of files, not through the application I have open (which would replace the open file pointer). The article list is a browser for articles.

Last edited by Gocom (2013-10-22 16:57:56)

wet · 2013-10-22 17:05:25

Gocom wrote:

If you need duplication on daily basis, I could argue that you are doing something, as you put it, bass-ackward.

That given, I have to admit that I am doing something similar.

Your articles should be easy to format; articles themselves should never contain any code, or duplicate elements.

This applies to the site in question.

Bloke · 2013-10-22 17:57:59

On shopping websites where each article is a product, it can be handy to just clone a related article and change the odd CF like price, SKU code, article image, and alter body text, etc. Saves a fair bit of time over doing each from scratch or having two tabs open and copying / pasting the content. But I’ve traditionally done that with a plugin because it’s not an “every site” occurrence.

I’d be more than happy with a plugin that did it. Maybe a callback nearby would allow people to more easily add button functionality to clutter their admin sides with…? It would make it slightly more ‘future proof’ than upm_save_new’s approach of hooking into an ever-changing DOM structure.

EDIT: plus, as I’ve always maintained, many people want different things out of a save new. When CFs get split from the textpattern table, you’ll need custom code to clone the ones you want anyway because they won’t get cloned for free like they would now. A plugin gives the flexibility to customize which bits are cloned, what happens to the datestamps, whether the original author is retained in the new article, stuff like that.

Last edited by Bloke (2013-10-22 18:05:26)

mrdale · 2013-10-22 23:24:34

LOL so much trouble for a very simple (very standard) button. You know, at some point Apple decided to relent and have a second and third button on a mouse. Everyone survived how terribly ugly it was because it was very useful.

Gocom wrote: If you need duplication on daily basis, I could argue that you are doing something, as you put it, bass-ackward.

You could, but that would be wrong. In the real world, you often want to start creating a piece of content that is a variation on something else. Imagine your site features different cars
why would you start from scratch if you were working on next year’s model of the same car. Much is the same, much is different. Why slavishly retype everything. Telling editors exactly how they should work instead of embracing a variety of uses of a system is just short-sighted.

Your articles should be easy to format; articles themselves should never contain any code, or duplicate elements.

They are and they don’t, but Jukka please, no duplicate elements? Don’t make me laugh, when have you ever built a site that does not contain any duplicate elements? Example: Let’s say you have six car profile product pages… Now my guess is that most of them are going to have similar sized wheels, a motor and a windshield. Those common elements may be (gasp!) custom fields!

If you need template tags in your articles, then there are shortcomings in how you have built your templates and your site. Same goes if you need to create multiple articles tightly crafted to populate a single page.

Agreed, why would you do that?

That’s exactly how file duplication works via file browser; you select it and duplicate it.

Now you’re just giving up… We have a CMS because we’d prefer not to make everyone use an FTP browser and INCLUDE more people in content editing. You’re totally missing the point. Me? I can zip around a TXP installation pretty well with SequelPro and Queries, I can update a bunch of stuff by rsyncing files all over the place. But that kind of workflow isn’t really a CMS is it?

Last edited by mrdale (2013-10-23 00:02:11)

colak · 2013-10-23 05:04:37

My argument would also go the txp’s way. Although I don’t use the particular code, judging from the forum questions, there are people here who do. <txp:article_custom customfieldname="value" sort="custom_5" /> Allowing for save new (or similar), minimizes the possibility for typos in the custom fields and enables the sites to function as intended.

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#13 2013-10-21 12:03:14

Re: [request] Save As, Save New button for 4.5+

#14 2013-10-21 13:28:37

Re: [request] Save As, Save New button for 4.5+

#15 2013-10-21 15:06:09

Re: [request] Save As, Save New button for 4.5+

#16 2013-10-21 16:44:44

Re: [request] Save As, Save New button for 4.5+

#17 2013-10-22 08:38:33

Re: [request] Save As, Save New button for 4.5+

#18 2013-10-22 14:17:44

Re: [request] Save As, Save New button for 4.5+

#19 2013-10-22 15:54:28

Re: [request] Save As, Save New button for 4.5+

#20 2013-10-22 16:55:38

Re: [request] Save As, Save New button for 4.5+

#21 2013-10-22 17:05:25

Re: [request] Save As, Save New button for 4.5+

#22 2013-10-22 17:57:59

Re: [request] Save As, Save New button for 4.5+

#23 2013-10-22 23:24:34

Re: [request] Save As, Save New button for 4.5+

#24 2013-10-23 05:04:37

Re: [request] Save As, Save New button for 4.5+

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