The direction of Textpattern 5

uli · 2012-11-02 15:14:36

Destry wrote:

Everything goes away except the Comments panel.

Stef just worked on that one, see here

philwareham · 2012-11-02 15:15:05

So you’ve set accept comments to ‘no’ and the content menu still shows ‘Comments’, and you can still navigate to that page?

Latest SVN build? This patch only went in today so it won’t be in the nightlies until tomorrow. It’s working fine in my SVN test site here.

Destry · 2012-11-02 15:22:43

That’s likely the problem. Sorry. I’m a little new to the nightlies.

Destry · 2012-11-02 15:25:41

Still a “flush comments” feature is an appealing idea for quick clean up. Maybe it works that way? I’ll wait and see.

philwareham · 2012-11-02 15:59:26

It doesn’t work that way. Anything that permanently destroys database tables is not going to be left to a simple pref on/off toggle.

Likewise, this toggle doesn’t affect anything front-side (apart from hiding the ‘add a comment’ form), so if you’ve got comments already they’ll still be visible. It’s up to designers to remove the comment tags from pages/forms if they don’t want comments to appear on their site any more.

Last edited by philwareham (2012-11-02 15:59:55)

AdamK · 2012-11-02 17:58:26

Bryon wrote:

In the case of css I would rather have a means of editing them in the admin as now but saving them as xml with the option of converting them to xslt. This would speed up the backend check any site that loads more than one style sheet at pingdome, hover the sheets and check the wait time.

nice. please describe a toolchain for someone who is not a natural born TXP admin but a designer working with X different frameworks, usually off-site with heavy usage of scss. Imagine the pain of making ANY amendment on a live site, when you must deal not with usual css text files, but with a XML setup unknown to any other platform. it’s like big, shiny green sign shouting “EXIT =>”.

A.

Last edited by AdamK (2012-11-02 18:08:28)

philwareham · 2012-11-02 18:53:49

I have to admit I too am confused as to the value of serving CSS via XML. Can you enlighten us?

Gocom · 2012-11-02 19:41:19

Phil, I would just ignore this talk like rest of us basically are. I don’t have radar big enough for this and my face already has the palm of my hand printed on it. In short, this whole thing has no value or relevance to us.

As far as serving goes, this suggestion doesn’t mean we would be serving, but storing content, data, in a XML format (in a flat-file XML database) which then would be parsed by the server and served as it is now. We are already using a database – a different type of database. There is no point of us changing to XML files. There is no gain (performance, eh?), it’s just different way of storing content and approach to templating.

Last edited by Gocom (2012-11-02 19:45:01)

Bryon · 2012-11-03 01:47:11

Gocom wrote:
Phil, I would just ignore this talk like rest of us basically are.

Yes, I saw that. The good ol’boys got together and formed themselves a posse in another thread and had themselves a hangin. It’s nice to see that the same small group of four or five people are still here 8 years later acting like 14 y/o kids forming a dodgeball team at recess. Sorry I’m not cool enough to fit into the click. I’ll go off and play in a corner with the other none nepotistic kids like you all have basically asked me and everyone else that is not in your club to do.

Gocom wrote:
There is no point of us changing to XML files. There is no gain (performance, eh?), it’s just different way of storing content and approach to templating.

Exactly Mr. Genius! Had you, or any of your good buddies actually read what I wrote (instead of hanging onto the dreaded thought that someone even mentioned Textile in a bad light) you would have caught that ALL… read it again… ALL I mentioned XML for in the first place was a means for Stef to gradually wean people off of the current comment system. You know… so that stalwarts who refuse to switch to a new system could have a little time to arrange their sites to function with whatever the next system is. BUT NOOOOOOOOO. A group of buddy buddy internet rednecks got together and convinced themselves that bryon (see: my name) was here to wreck havoc in their beloved sandbox.

“Oh no! Quick, LYNCH HIM! He is going to steal our toys!”

Do any of you ever wonder why Wordpress has so many users and developers? Here’s a small hint… the main people don’t behave like a small group of back alley thugs.

Bryon · 2012-11-03 02:05:26

Here’s the deal. I tried.

You have offended me. Many of you. I would love to use words that would probably trigger a filter or two now. But, I won’t. Just know that you have made another human being on this planet to cringe at even the thought of using Textpattern from this day forward.

I now have several sites for which I have to find another cms to use. A couple of them are for personal/development purposes, one is for a local lan but 4 of them are being built to serve as new portal systems for LA, NYC, CHI and STL. It’s not going to be fun transferring everything to a new system. But, honestly, the thought of ever using something … that many of the people here have had anything to do with developing … makes me sick to my stomach.

My only hope at this point is that Stef, etc and a couple others who are not ( insert_word_that_would_trigger_filter_here )’s open their eyes and stop wasting their time, playing with spoiled brats and casting their pearls before swine.

Have a good day all. And don’t worry about your toys. I left them exactly where they were. Sorry that I didn’t realize that you were all still so territorial and downright childish.

Gocom · 2012-11-03 04:02:05

Bryon wrote:

Yes, I saw that.

It’s not exactly because of that. I said to advice other avoiding from fueling provocative storm. You must admit that you are trying to provoke and tick people off intentionally, aren’t you?

The reason why I haven’t commented anything to suggestions of XML is because I don’t have anything to exactly say about it, other than “well, it’s a thing” and “nope”. Having an XML database could be good or amazing, it could open up different set of tools, but it’s different. It doesn’t necessary make the system better, or something one must do.

Yes, there definitely should be an option to edit templates and styles as flat files, but internally Textpattern does use SQL and is known for that. RDBMS system is extendable too, and can be shaped to store and fit different type of comment systems as well as an XML database could.

Both an XML database and a RDBMS that uses SQL can store these comment systems and can made “pluggable” and customizable. Both are as open and as confusing. Both share set dependencies and the stored data will have relations in both. Both have their own pitfalls and their own fans. For certain etc will like XML, he for sure knows more than a thing about xPath, and for certain has some type of background with XML tools and languages. I neither have anything against XML based databases and systems. I use XSLT here and there even. But, it’s not what Textpattern uses.

Thing just is that Textpattern doesn’t use XSLT or XML. We use PHP, RDBMS and SQL as our database of choice, and templates are deployed using an XML-like templating language (this language is not really related to XML at all) and these tools should be used consistently for everything that can be, while keeping any limitations in mind. Having an XML parser tags in Textpattern could obviously be good. Such would allow easy integration of XML content in Textpattern websites, something we might look into in the future. I have nothing against set of XML parser tags personally.

As a full-blown XML databases go, one could potentially store Textpattern’s contents in one instead of an other data file scheme — by using an adapter. This would obviously require that the system would communicate using SQL as that is what Textpattern uses. We do have few MySQL dependencies that must be removed if possible, tho.

Textile in a bad light

What about Textile? It’s an simple text formatting syntax language, alternative to competitors such as Markdown. Both have pretty easy to use syntax. PHP version is maintained by a guy named Steve, goes by netcarver on these forums too. Nice and smart dude.

Textile just offers a propriety formatting syntax, like the rest of them. Everyone will prefer one over the other. It basically depends on what syntax one is used to. I don’t blame you if you don’t like it. I’m neutral about it. I have nothing against Textile, but I neither prefer it over Markdown. Both have their own limitations and I’ve used both.

You have offended me. Many of you.

I’m sorry if you do feel so.

“Oh no! Quick, LYNCH HIM! He is going to steal our toys!”

Steal what from whom? Me? I’m main people? Ummm… I’m just a contributor and a developer type people. Fix things and stuff, build platforms. Haven’t had lollipops in few years, but when I do please don’t take it.

Wordpress

WordPress is a great system and a very good alternative for Textpattern. They do deserve all love they get. They do get a lot undesired hate too. They have their set of issues, but they do get much more shit than anyone should.

the main people don’t behave like a small group of back alley thugs.

Thanks for that, I suppose.

Bryon · 2012-11-03 04:59:40

Gocom,

1) If you think that I began by trying to tick people off then you obviously did not read what I wrote in the order that I wrote it. The very first response I received from wet was obviously pointed and a jab. I responded in kind.

2) I never suggested replacing txp’s sql with xml. I replied to etc’s suggestion of the POSSIBILITY of doing so.

3) Textile is what it is. I, for one, do not like it and believe that by having it as the default markup drives more people away than it draws in. I stated my pint of view, quickly and precisely and got hammered for it… tag-team style by what I can only assume are angry, jumpy, zealots who acted like children afraid of losing toys. The vast majority of comments were (both in this thread and the dedicated one about “how bad it would be to lose textile”) were beyond pithy and jabs.

4) You’re sorry? For what? Being called out for openly poking at another person whom you’ve had absolutely no previous personal interaction with? I can’t imagine such a thing! (that’s technically sarcasm ie: I just did to you what you did to me in another thread). Get it now? I hope so. Maybe we’ll both be able to have a nice day, evening, night, weekend now that this has been cleared up.

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#325 2012-11-02 15:14:36

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#326 2012-11-02 15:15:05

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#327 2012-11-02 15:22:43

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#328 2012-11-02 15:25:41

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#329 2012-11-02 15:59:26

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#330 2012-11-02 17:58:26

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#331 2012-11-02 18:53:49

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#332 2012-11-02 19:41:19

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#333 2012-11-03 01:47:11

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#334 2012-11-03 02:05:26

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#335 2012-11-03 04:02:05

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#336 2012-11-03 04:59:40

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

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