Joyent cancels lifetime hosting in October. New host recommendations?

Destry · 2012-08-17 09:03:50

I know. I’m talking about the hosting and registration costs combined. Everything I’ve laid out are legitimate ways to offset/leverage those costs so you, or “Textpattern”, isn’t paying for it all.

Honestly, it’s too bad that nobody has any business ambition (as in, make money) for the Textpattern project, because it’s ripe for it right now in so many ways. Nothing is truly ever free, as this situation makes blatantly clear. That’s a term that should be struck from the marketing copy. I’m not just suggesting Txp is a paid-for product; there are different kinds of business ideas to kick around (core plugins at cost), (supported themes at cost), partnerships, advertising, etc. Lots of creative options. But it all means nothing if there’s no ambition for it.

So what I’m suggesting above is just ideas in the current no-business model. Maybe you’ll get lucky and Joyent will come through.

Last edited by Destry (2012-08-17 09:07:36)

colak · 2012-08-17 09:36:14

wet wrote:

Our current hosting is “worth” roundabout 100$ per month.

Wouldn’t it cost less at dreamhost should Jason not accept to waver the fee for txp?

Destry wrote:

Colak: Like Reid said in the J-forum, I’m sure Hoffman thought long and hard about the repercussions his announcement would make before he made it.

On answering to the question “…my sense is that you greatly underestimated the damage to Joyent’s reputation.”, Jason wrote: I might have,

Maybe he overlooked the Textpattern sites and something might be worked out there…

I sure hope so that’s why I posted this in the j-forum

philwareham · 2012-08-17 10:10:24

Hmmm. I do have a lot of spare capacity on one of my dedicated servers. Maybe I could work something out if it became an emergency (obviously I’d rather the textpattern sites had their own hosting solution though).

Last edited by philwareham (2012-08-17 10:10:37)

Destry · 2012-08-17 10:12:02

Colak,

I read your post there when you mentioned it before, but I wouldn’t be too excited about anything the Joyent CEO says at this point. CEO’s will say and do whatever the business agenda requires, including buying you a drink if you fly to San Francisco, like old pals. Please. Dancing around subtleties is a CEO’s best trick, and Hoffman is well-versed.

This is my personal opinion, not any reflection of Textpattern’s opinion, of course.

On a different note, I think it’s complete bullshit, if the rumors are true, that people are negotiating refunds through Joyent support. Some people reporting getting some (or alluding to that fact). Joyent should be dealing with the situation wholesale, for everybody the same way, not through back-alley dealings in a short time frame where most everybody would never have a chance.

Hmm… why do I have the feeling I know who this is? A TextDrive/Joyent user since 2004. (I could be wrong.) A List Apart used to be hosted by TextDrive.

Last edited by Destry (2012-08-17 10:19:48)

philwareham · 2012-08-17 10:20:06

I guess now is a good time to do more work on the website redesign then :)

Destry · 2012-08-17 11:57:09

philwareham wrote:

I guess now is a good time to do more work on the website redesign then :)

:)

You know what I mean.

Sorry, I’m in the writing mood today…

Benevolent work is powerful, no doubt, and especially when it’s coordinated like what we’re doing across the board with recognition (for example), and what you, Phil, are doing with design, and Stef with plugins (someday… JOKE!), and Philipp with brand. And all the years some of us have put into the wiki, etc. We’ve done a tremendous amount so far, putting a lot of pieces together where they’ve been missing. I don’t think it’s even recognized how much has been achieved in just the last year.

But while that’s better than what’s ever existed before, it’s still not going to be ever-lasting. Textpattern can’t simply keep operating on the good will of the small community. The good will vibe doesn’t work in today’s world, not by itself anyway. What CMS out there anymore operate on a “free” model alone? None that I know of worth a crap, or that the market will ever recognize. Robert has even admitted the “patrons” are few and the donations fewer. It’s non-sustaining, and especially at the higher bar we’ve created now with brand, publications, etc. The project needs to get serious with business thinking. Sooner or later, someone will make a business move on it (in a way, TXP Builders already have). It could be Textpattern, but it will be its own loss if not.

(I think Les “lazlo” Smith was on to something when he said a year ago in planning that it’s past time for a Txp Foundation. A topic that begs for a magazine article… who can write it?)

I might as well go ahead and say… I, for one, have plans for developing a paid theme or two, much along the same model as IA’s IA³, where it’s copyrighted, fits Textpattern (and whatever else I choose), and buyers will always be supported through help, upgrades, etc. I can imagine other designers will be doing the same thing. Something like this should be orchestrated through Themes in a way that benefits both Textpattern and designers. I’ve talked about it before. That’s a business tactic. One that’s mutually beneficial to core and community. One of many that could be employed.

Enough from me, I have a magazine to get ready…

philwareham · 2012-08-17 13:10:41

Theoretically I could build a handful themes and sell through shopify at an official Textpattern store (i.e. shop.textpattern.com), with proceeds returning to the project. Others could do likewise with a slice of their earnings returning to the project (though in that instance I guess we would act as middleman, taking the payment and forwarding on funds). But…

themes are under GPL to a certain extent.
if lots of you create themes, who do users contact with any problems – not me.
many textpattern themes rely on plugins, so therefore the plugin authors have direct impact on whether your theme continues to work or not.
Textpattern doesn’t have a mechanism built in to handle theme installation.

I’d be in favour of some business model for Textpattern, within reason, but not sure themes are the answer. So that leaves…

hosting – we all know where that ended up last time.
merchandise store – probably not a big money maker.
advertising and partnership revenues – probably can be done with a little groundwork and out reaching. My new .com design allows for better placements of advertising (whilst not being intrusive) so that’s a start.

colak · 2012-08-17 13:19:38

Destry wrote:

CEO’s will say and do whatever the business agenda requires…

+1 on this one.

zero · 2012-08-17 15:55:47

philwareham wrote:

I’d be in favour of some business model for Textpattern, within reason, but not sure themes are the answer. So that leaves…

hosting – we all know where that ended up last time.
merchandise store – probably not a big money maker.
advertising and partnership revenues – probably can be done with a little groundwork and out reaching. My new .com design allows for better placements of advertising (whilst not being intrusive) so that’s a start.

———

There’s another business that might suit Textpattern — customizing txp to make it into desirable apps for markets with gaps in them. For example, I know where there is a gap in the market and txp would be ideal to fill that gap. The problems are as follows:

Devs would have extra work (but plugin devs could do it)
Once up and running, maintence and support may be time consuming
Sustainability, security, legality and piracy issues
Business and marketing expertise absolutely essential

If there were enough people who feel they could handle all those problems and work together for years to come, then there’s a possibility of 10,000 sales at £100 each gross income, and of course more if there was a really clever business plan, flair, creativity and lots of hardwork in marketing etc.

I don’t think it will happen, do you? Similar to merchandise store or advertising and partnership revenues, I don’t think there’s any stand out talent in the community for the business side of any Textpattern business model.

New host recommendations? I think there’s a great opportunity for someone to offer VPS packages to all the Textdrivers/Joyain’t people. Buy a couple of servers, colocate, work out the costs and split it between the first 100 to apply, free for Textpattern.com etc of course. Leave it at that, with the person who does it making a minimum wage for ongoing maintenance of a super-fast, reliable hosting package. Just my 2p.

springworks · 2012-08-17 17:44:43

Jason Hoffman on the Joyent forum just now

OK. I’m saying so.
If you’re a lifetime shared “Textdrive” customer you have two options
1) 5 years of a 512MB Smartmachine for per lifetime account. Not lifetime. 5 years. Because lifetime is not a “legal” or “financial” term. This is like getting your OWN shared hosting SERVER!
or
2) A complete refund of your payment per lifetime service offering.
And guys like textpattern.com, if you’re a non-profit et cetera, we’ll have a non-profit program where you continue getting things for free. If just needs to be an actual “program”.

Emphasis added.

So hopefully Textpattern’s future is assured for now and we can go back to worrying about our own personal hosting issues.

Destry · 2012-08-18 04:22:15

Well, that’s interesting. The public outrage has paid off. No pun intended.

I’m curious what “program” means for Textpattern now. Perhaps just the account structure. But it sounds like a pickle for any business interests. (One thing after another.)

For personal accounts, if I understand that right, if I paid for VC II, Mixed Grill, (and there might have been another one… Three-Martini Lunch?), Joyent is offering a refund on the combined value of those “lifetime” related investments and upgrades?

jstubbs · 2012-08-18 04:46:06

Destry, the Migration FAQ has been updated – 5 years or a full refund.

Lifetime customers can choose to receive either a credit for use on the Joyent Cloud or a full refund of their original payment for their lifetime service(s).

Lifetime Shared Hosting account (VC200, Lifetime Hosting Redux, VC2, VC3, VC4, Mixed Grill, and Three Martini Lunch) or Lifetime Small Accelerator customers are eligible for the dollar equivalent of a 512MB Smart Machine for 5 years at current prices. This credit will be offered as a $1,325 Service Credit in Joyent Cloud for each Lifetime Shared Hosting Account or Lifetime Small Accelerator.

Lifetime Medium Accelerator customers are eligible for the dollar equivalent of a 1GB Smart Machine for 5 years at current prices. This credit will be offered as a $3,725 Service Credit in Joyent Cloud for each Lifetime Medium Accelerator account.

Customers who may have multiple lifetime accounts will receive a single credit that contains the summed value of the above promotions.

This promotion is valid for the total dollar amount offered or 5 years, which ever occurs first. If in the future you cancel your Joyent Cloud account, you will forgo any remaining value on this credit.

Textpattern is going to have to decide what to do next because as you say, its not in the interest of a business to be unsure of what is around the corner. Jason has stated that Txp is going to stay and become part of a program supporting non-profits or apps, but that would have to be in writing to inspire confidence for an open-source project.

Right now I’m calculating cost for new hosts (WebFaction, A Small Orange, Gandi, Dreamhost) and trying to figure out the best way forward.

Last edited by jstubbs (2012-08-18 04:46:26)

colak · 2012-08-18 05:34:57

Jason wrote “ textpattern.com et al will still be completely supported by us.”

Jason wrote “Huh? We’re not going to stop supporting all the textpattern stuff. Never said that.”

Destry · 2012-08-18 05:42:29

Thanks, Jonathan!

jstubbs wrote:

Right now I’m calculating cost for new hosts (WebFaction, A Small Orange, Gandi, Dreamhost) and trying to figure out the best way forward.

Exactly what I’m doing. I’ll take my refund and try new land. I’m happy with the refund. I think it’s fair. And I’ll be happy to be rid of all the silly tech talk from Joyent — Accelerator this, SmartMachine that… — always changed, etc. Always something new and buzzy being pitched with fervor…

I noticed this from a poster in the J-forum earlier. I think this is exactly what I paid for too, but I’m hoping Joyent kept track, because I didn’t… You know, I didn’t think I had to. :)

In my case, a refund of my original ~ (USD$400 VCII -> USD$200 MxG crossgrade

A table grid of these hosts with their relevant offers/costs could be useful.

I haven’t decided yet. Just looking at Gandi, it’s Simple Hosting + Paas sounds like the best situation if you just need a main account and a few virtual hosts. And a 50% off the first year if you already have a domain name registered with them (I do). They are the #1 host provider in France, and 6th in Europe (according to About page). I wonder what the other five are… I’m not crazy about their website; it’s very hard to navigate around and find information. I didn’t even know they had a Twitter (@gandibar) or Facebook account because it’s not indicated anywhere on their site (though just found it on the blog only). Little things like that make me skeptical of the greater service.

Last edited by Destry (2012-08-18 05:54:21)

Destry · 2012-08-18 05:57:56

colak wrote:

Jason wrote “Huh? We’re not going to stop supporting all the textpattern stuff. Never said that.”

Well, Robert apparently go the email, but it could have been sent by mistake… an automated mistake. Two adrenaline rushes in one month… first the domain name renewal, now this… eh, Robert?

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#31 2012-08-17 09:03:50

Re: Joyent cancels lifetime hosting in October. New host recommendations?

#32 2012-08-17 09:36:14

Re: Joyent cancels lifetime hosting in October. New host recommendations?

#33 2012-08-17 10:10:24

Re: Joyent cancels lifetime hosting in October. New host recommendations?

#34 2012-08-17 10:12:02

Re: Joyent cancels lifetime hosting in October. New host recommendations?

#35 2012-08-17 10:20:06

Re: Joyent cancels lifetime hosting in October. New host recommendations?

#36 2012-08-17 11:57:09

Re: Joyent cancels lifetime hosting in October. New host recommendations?

#37 2012-08-17 13:10:41

Re: Joyent cancels lifetime hosting in October. New host recommendations?

#38 2012-08-17 13:19:38

Re: Joyent cancels lifetime hosting in October. New host recommendations?

#39 2012-08-17 15:55:47

Re: Joyent cancels lifetime hosting in October. New host recommendations?

#40 2012-08-17 17:44:43

Re: Joyent cancels lifetime hosting in October. New host recommendations?

#41 2012-08-18 04:22:15

Re: Joyent cancels lifetime hosting in October. New host recommendations?

#42 2012-08-18 04:46:06

Re: Joyent cancels lifetime hosting in October. New host recommendations?

#43 2012-08-18 05:34:57

Re: Joyent cancels lifetime hosting in October. New host recommendations?

#44 2012-08-18 05:42:29

Re: Joyent cancels lifetime hosting in October. New host recommendations?

#45 2012-08-18 05:57:56

Re: Joyent cancels lifetime hosting in October. New host recommendations?

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