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[wiki] THEMES documentation (+ competition?)
Following discussion with Bloke from here…
Help us create a list of topics that could eventually be step-wise documentation for someone to create a custom front- or admin-side theme from scratch.
Ideally, this would be forward thinking to the new front-side and admin-side default templates. Not being an experienced “themer”, I’m not sure what the focus on default themes should be in order to be compatible with core development directions. Discuss!
Theme documentation topics can (and should) include ideas about relevant theming plugins, workflow (novice to advanced), etc. So, as far as documentation goes, topics for the list can be anything at this point for the theme docs that will be written for the wiki.
Competition idea:
If I understand things right, one reason it’s important the default template constructions (front and back) is compatible with a development style guide (Bloke has mentioned the need for writing a dev style guide before) is because we should want to be able to hold semi-regular theming competitions in the future, with prizes and the whole nine yards (Why not?). But if the default themes are not compatible with core development objectives, that could cause some problems, wouldn’t it?
Here’s an idea…call it crazy, but I think it’s fun and will generate a lot of PR (heh)…
We know Phil is working on front-side and admin-side default templates. But (and don’t kill me, Phil) what if Phil just works on the template structures/hooks—making sure they are in-line with future theming aims—but leave the presentation out. Perfectly functional, but naked (no presentation). Think CSS Zen Garden.
Then we hold our first major theming competition using Phil’s new template constructions (and the wiki’s forthcoming theming documentation) and the prize for the first competition is getting one’s themes (front, back, or both) used for the default designs. Phil can enter his presentations as part of the competition.
Either way, Phil is still a “winner” because the template structure/hooks are his work. In a sense, he’s doing the most important part!
I think this is a funner way to approach the effort, while at the same time ensuring there are dev conventions in place for future theming and plugin development aims.
Plus, it’s a great motivation for getting the theming documentation produced, as well provides an opportunity (the competition) to test docs out with hopeful designers.
I’m all ears, why would this be a bad idea?
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Re: [wiki] THEMES documentation (+ competition?)
Interesting idea Destry.
In essence the front-side structure and hooks I’ve worked on are already nailed down quite well, although I’d like some more testers to check the tag code and report back any improvements/changes they feel could be made. I’m reviewing a couple of outlining issues at the moment but nothing major with regard to structural changes.
I’ve tried to keep it as clean, flexible and semantic as possible, so it should be quite easy for anyone else to re-skin. Major caveats to bear in mind if taking this structure and re-styling it being that no images can be used at all, and no extra pages/forms can be created, just use the existing structure. It also, for better or worse, mainly follows the current TXP4 structure in terms of filenaming – just a couple of form additions and some deletions of unnecessary/unused forms (such as lofi).
Obviously that limits how far you can take any default theme, we’re not talking about having any sliders/galleries/javascript libraries (apart from Modernizr), so don’t even go there.
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Re: [wiki] THEMES documentation (+ competition?)
You’ll also have to bear in mind styling of other features such as styling for <pre>, <code>, <blockquote>, <table>, <sup>… in fact pretty much every feature/tag that can be created by an author using textile.
Plus, in the spirit of multi language support, all static text in the theme is going to have to be available in the language string database table. Robert has given me a little leeway in adding a few extra strings of text which is not currently there in the database – but I’ve kept it to an absolute minimum. He’ll add those strings in prior to release.
So while the default theme initially looks pretty basic, there’s a whole host of considerations to take into account under the hood. Take it from someone who’s been there already.
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Re: [wiki] THEMES documentation (+ competition?)
Destry wrote:
But if the default themes are not compatible with core development objectives, that could cause some problems, wouldn’t it?
The day, an elusive one, when the core devs put down guidelines to front side themes, then, and only then, will documentation start to flow.
Questions:
a) What do we call front side themes? themes, templates, layouts, etc.
b) Where are the assets stored? _templates, themes, in the root alongside /files and /images or in /textpattern/themes
c) When is lofi going to die a painful death? TXP 4.4.2 or TXP5?
d) What plugin do we get behind? hcg, mem, cxc or a core maintained version?
What I started 4 years ago, by now, would of morphed into a full blown how-to, had there been enthusiasm, rather than resistance.
We Love TXP . TXP Themes . TXP Tags . TXP Planet . TXP Make
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Re: [wiki] THEMES documentation (+ competition?)
hcgtv wrote:
When is lofi going to die a painful death? TXP 4.4.2 or TXP5?
Personally I’d rather release some improvements – such as new front-side theme, deletion of obsolete unused forms, fixes of the known issues moving to HTML5 I’ve posted in my theme readme.md, amendments of default article text and links text (as mentioned above) – as a TXP v4.5 release sooner rather than later. That fixes a few concerns people have right now. Then look at how the theme system and template files could work as part of TXP5 which sounds like it’s going to be a major retool across the board anyway.
The resistance is probably that the devs want backwards compatibility in the v4.x branch – which I kind of agree with to a certain extent – but TXP5 could be so far off in the distance that not doing things until then is going to hurt the future potential userbase of Textpattern beforehand.
Last edited by philwareham (2011-07-25 16:39:16)
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Re: [wiki] THEMES documentation (+ competition?)
hcgtv wrote:
The day, an elusive one…
I hear you, Bert. But it’s never too late.
As long Txp is alive, and people want a better way to theme, then something—anything—can be aimed for. I’ve seen Bloke mention here and there that he does intend (no doubt a time issue, as ever) to start a developer style guide. I even started a doc for them to help facilitate that initiative. (Get the ideas down first, we make it organized and nice as we go…is the idea.)
From a user docs point of view, even documentation that says what the current constraints are is a start (what you have done there, by the looks of it). Better than just stickig a wet finger in the air to gauge what to do next.
I’d like to think there’s been enough attention on Txp’s theming situation (positive and negative) to warrant this moving forward in a favorable way for everybody.
Probably what other devs could do is ask the core devs how they might like to be helped to get the dev docs off the ground.
Frankly, a first step would be to outline the document…what are the major sections? Add those right into the goog doc so it’s visible and inspires thinking and commenting. From there, more people can hook in with feedback, then the writing starts…next thing you know some documentation is started. :)
Who wants to help with that Doc? Tell me, I’ll give you write access right now.
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Re: [wiki] THEMES documentation (+ competition?)
philwareham wrote:
The resistance is probably that the devs want backwards compatibility in the v4.x branch – which I kind of agree with to a certain extent – but TXP5 could be so far off in the distance that not doing things until then is going to hurt the future potential userbase of Textpattern beforehand.
I don’t see how cleaning up the default forms would in anyway impact existing installs. Or coming up with a set of guidelines for new themes would disenfranchise existing designers. All I’ve ever advocated was to move away from the copy/paste of new themes towards a more streamlined method for new users.
As for TXP5, I can’t comment because I haven’t heard anything about it.
Destry wrote:
I hear you, Bert. But it’s never too late.
Well, I’ve yet to arrive at the f*ck it point, though I’ve had many WTF moments.
We Love TXP . TXP Themes . TXP Tags . TXP Planet . TXP Make
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