[contrib] The Textpattern brand

jsoo · 2009-10-05 11:33:42

masa wrote:

One thing, that would make it a lot smoother, is, if Textpattern could create the config.php automatically in the right location, rather than asking you to start a text editor, paste what’s on the screen in an empty document and then ftp it into the Textpattern folder. I always felt, these three extra steps somehow interrupt the installation process.

Wouldn’t that require making /textpattern/ world-writable? Then you’d have to change permissions after installation.

masa · 2009-10-05 11:41:52

jsoo wrote:

Wouldn’t that require making /textpattern/ world-writable? Then you’d have to change permissions after installation.

I don’t know.
It’s simply an observation from a user’s perspective: if Textpattern can create and populate tables in a db during installation, it might as well create the config.php for me.

Bloke · 2009-10-05 12:16:18

jsoo wrote:

I am thinking of new installations only

That’s fine, thanks for the clarification. It’s a major step up from having to either:

clone your own favourite database and settings to apply it after installation
hack the files prior to upload

Having a system capable of setting up a default site ‘theme’ (terminology could get confusing here wrt hcg_templates… argh) at install time is a huge boost imo. Anyone else agree?

Drop-down select list during installation, as with choosing language.

Gotcha. Poifick.

masa wrote:

if Textpattern can create and populate tables in a db during installation, it might as well create the config.php for me.

I agree that having that extra file upload hurdle is less than optimal but — functionally and programatically speaking — creating and populating tables in a database is very different from creating and populating files in the file system, with the inherent problems of worrying about permissions and different OS versions.

EDIT: having said that, you have to go into your FTP client anyway and remove the setup directory after install so I guess you could argue that resetting the permissions on the /textpattern directory is only one small extra step. Not sure if this is worth pursuing or not. Anyone have any further thoughts on whether this is a big enough stumbling block to consider altering, or even if it’s technically possible without making a support nightmare scenario when the automatic config.php creation fails due to cosmic fairy dust (or Windoze)?

Last edited by Bloke (2009-10-05 12:20:00)

Gocom · 2009-10-05 14:14:07

jsoo wrote:

Wouldn’t that require making /textpattern/ world-writable? Then you’d have to change permissions after installation.

Folder is 777 (etc) only if the permissions and groups are setup incorrectly. Is your images or files folder 777? It shouldn’t be. If it is you should contact your host, as it means that anybody can write there. It should be 755 atmost.

masa wrote:

One thing, that would make it a lot smoother, is, if Textpattern could create the config.php automatically in the right location

That might be a bit hard. Not for the permissions, but instead, what the PHP can do. Can it create or edit executed code on it’s own, or can it edit system (/apache’s) files? Would you be fine if it had rights to do it? It might fail even when permissions/groups are setup correctly, that is, if host has zero tolerancy.

Bloke wrote:

EDIT: having said that, you have to go into your FTP client anyway and remove the setup directory after install so I guess you could argue that resetting the permissions on the /textpattern directory is only one small extra step.

Well removing the setup folder and creating the config file could be a option. If it fails it automatically defaults to the original one. It might also give you a option to download the config file.

artagesw · 2009-10-05 18:19:34

Allowing the web server to write to the /textpattern or /private folder would be a security issue. Much safer to ask the user to create the file than to ask the user to fix up permissions.

johnstephens · 2009-10-05 23:50:59

Anyone have any further thoughts on whether this is a big enough stumbling block to consider altering, or even if it’s technically possible

Since I use MAMP, I recently installed Living E’s CMS called webEdition. The user interface of the CMS was a glutted nightmare, but the install process was stunningly simple— you upload one small php file to your server (in my case, I installed it locally), and visit that in your browser. The script then downloads all the files you need and even generates config. Since webEdition is a monster of a CMS, the install script prompts you to choose modules you want to download. If this method were applied to Textpattern, such steps could be avoided.

In terms of theming Textpattern, which is tangentially related, I’m a huge fan of cnk_versioning. In addition to allowing you to export and import templates from the file system, it also auto-loads changed files on a page refresh when the site is in Testing or Debugging mode— when developing a site, this feature is immensely valuable.

Mary · 2009-10-06 03:14:11

Perhaps txpsql is the baseline and when you install from scratch it does an upgrade through each of the 4.0.1, 4.0.2, 4.0.3… updates files to build the pucker release?

The answer is yes.

I agree that having that extra file upload hurdle is less than optimal…

Sure, but keep in mind that there already exists a file – config-dist.php, so you don’t have to actually create a new file, you just have to rename one that already exists.

Allowing the web server to write to the /textpattern or /private folder would be a security issue. Much safer to ask the user to create the file than to ask the user to fix up permissions.

I agree.

…you upload one small php file to your server (in my case, I installed it locally), and visit that in your browser. The script then downloads all the files you need…

I’ve used something like that before, and I did not like it. It was a real headache.

it takes away the ability to inspect the software before you install it, which I always, always do with something new and not yet trusted
it means hammering the server for every single install, as opposed to allowing people to download a zipped file once and re-use it where needed
if download fails for some reason, install will puke

johnstephens · 2009-10-06 06:00:54

I’ve used something like that before, and I did not like it. It was a real headache.

- it takes away the ability to inspect the software before you install it, which I always, always do with something new and not yet trusted
- it means hammering the server for every single install, as opposed to allowing people to download a zipped file once and re-use it where needed
- if download fails for some reason, install will puke

Aha! Each of those would be deal-breakers, that would be serious issues were I installing this for anything other than idle curiosity.

I love having my local copies of Textpattern’s zip files going back to 4.0.5, as you said, and unpacking the latest one when starting a new project. From a developer perspective, it’s immensely helpful.

trenc · 2009-10-06 08:51:23

The script then downloads all the files you need and even generates config.

I don’t really like this. It’s maybe easy to use, but it’s a huge gate for security issues (see Wordpress and the online update function).

johnstephens · 2009-10-06 12:13:11

Yeah, I stand corrected! Please, don’t do anything to make Textpattern more like WordPress, especially in terms of security.

JimJoe · 2010-01-31 14:28:52

masa wrote:

jsoo wrote:

My suggestions are to clean up the installation process, […]

One thing, that would make it a lot smoother, is, if Textpattern could create the config.php automatically in the right location, rather than asking you to start a text editor, paste what’s on the screen in an empty document and then ftp it into the Textpattern folder. I always felt, these three extra steps somehow interrupt the installation process.

I’m sure, if these steps could be skipped, Textpattern would quickly gain a reputation for being exceptionally easy to install.

My post:

I didn’t find the extra steps to be a problem. I have found Textpattern to be much easier to deal with than other blogs/cms I have tried. Certainly better support than Movable Type and Work Press. I did do the tutorials and foind some things confusing around step 6 or 7. I’ll post about that when I have time to go back over that page and write down what didn’t work for me.

Overall I give tp a ‘ta-dah !’ or maybe a ‘yippeee !’. Far easier to install than even going through Fantastico on my domain, which I am trying to stop using. Fantastico, not my domain.

els · 2010-01-31 14:34:53

JimJoe wrote:

I’ll post about that when I have time to go back over that page and write down what didn’t work for me.

Thanks JimJoe, that would be helpful! And glad you like Txp :)

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#13 2009-10-05 11:33:42

Re: [contrib] The Textpattern brand

#14 2009-10-05 11:41:52

Re: [contrib] The Textpattern brand

#15 2009-10-05 12:16:18

Re: [contrib] The Textpattern brand

#16 2009-10-05 14:14:07

Re: [contrib] The Textpattern brand

#17 2009-10-05 18:19:34

Re: [contrib] The Textpattern brand

#18 2009-10-05 23:50:59

Re: [contrib] The Textpattern brand

#19 2009-10-06 03:14:11

Re: [contrib] The Textpattern brand

#20 2009-10-06 06:00:54

Re: [contrib] The Textpattern brand

#21 2009-10-06 08:51:23

Re: [contrib] The Textpattern brand

#22 2009-10-06 12:13:11

Re: [contrib] The Textpattern brand

#23 2010-01-31 14:28:52

Re: [contrib] The Textpattern brand

#24 2010-01-31 14:34:53

Re: [contrib] The Textpattern brand

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