[wiki] Tutorials page: layout & scope

els · 2009-10-04 16:08:59

jsoo wrote:

I don’t understand the distinction: not very useful, yet usable?

Sorry, must be my English. I’ll try again.

If the alphabetical pages list was the only index, it wouldn’t be very useful. If the only way to find a tutorial was to read through the entire list, it would be no more than ‘better than nothing’.
But as an addition to the subcategories index, I don’t see how it would negatively influence the usability of the category page.

Comparing to the Tag Reference again, I note the “mininav”, which I take to be a MW “form”. Is creating new forms for admins only? I think it would be useful to have a Tutorials mininav.

It’s a ‘template’, in mediawiki terminology, indeed similar to a Txp ‘form’. I’ll have a look at who can create them and how.

jsoo · 2009-10-04 16:21:30

Els wrote:

If the alphabetical pages list was the only index, it wouldn’t be very useful. If the only way to find a tutorial was to read through the entire list, it would be no more than ‘better than nothing’.
But as an addition to the subcategories index, I don’t see how it would negatively influence the usability of the category page.

OK, thanks for the clarification — certainly not any problem with your English, just a disagreement we have as to usability. But we do agree that the sub-category list has been a big improvement.

els · 2009-10-04 17:45:53

Jeff, for creating a new template, see here. Use the ‘Mininav tags’ template as an example.
I’m not sure if only admins or all users can do that, if you find that you can’t, please let me know what you want in the template and I’ll create it for you.

just a disagreement we have as to usability.

I’m not sure about that, I may be misunderstanding you. My most important point is that not making use of wiki categories for index pages would be like handcoding the navigation on a Txp site. And I – personally – don’t mind very much that the layout of those pages is far from ideal. That doesn’t mean that I don’t want to keep looking for ways to influence that layout. I’ve already been looking if maybe a setting exists that lets you determine if you want to present the lists in one, two or three columns. At first sight there doesn’t seem to be one, but – though it will take some time to explore the software more thoroughly – I’ll have another go at it some other time.

Here’s an idea for now, let me know what you think: what if we just remove [[category:Tutorials]] from all tutorial pages? The ‘Tutorials’ category page will then only list the subcategories. The subcategory pages will contain a much shorter list of pages. And for better readability we could (1) change the layout using CSS and (2) where possible shorten the titles.

jsoo · 2009-10-04 18:40:05

Els wrote:

Jeff, for creating a new template, see here. Use the ‘Mininav tags’ template as an example.
I’m not sure if only admins or all users can do that, if you find that you can’t, please let me know what you want in the template and I’ll create it for you.

Thanks Els, that is the clue I was seeking. So my idea is to add a mini-nav to some or all of the tutorials. What do you think?

Here’s an idea for now, let me know what you think: what if we just remove [[category:Tutorials]] from all tutorial pages? The ‘Tutorials’ category page will then only list the subcategories. The subcategory pages will contain a much shorter list of pages. And for better readability we could (1) change the layout using CSS and (2) where possible shorten the titles.

It makes sense for another reason also: it avoids the extra work and opportunity for error that comes from having to add the Tutorials category explicitly to articles—with your idea we just add the appropriate sub-category.

els · 2009-10-04 19:41:02

jsoo wrote:

So my idea is to add a mini-nav to some or all of the tutorials. What do you think?

Looks great :) and I think it really adds to the usability. (I only added it to that one page to see how it looked.)
Do you think it would be helpful if I create a ‘model tutorial page’, that contains something like this:

{{Mininav_tutorials}}

Your tutorial here...

<!-- Important links -- Keep at bottom! -->
<!-- Change 'A Category' into an appropriate existing category -->
[[category:A Category]]

and that can be copied for all new tutorials? I could add it here.

with your idea we just add the appropriate sub-category.

OK, so if you agree, we need to add the ‘Mininav tutorials’ template to, and remove the Tutorials category from the tutorial pages. Let me know where I can help!

Last edited by els (2009-10-04 19:43:44)

jsoo · 2009-10-04 19:56:14

Els wrote:

Do you think it would be helpful if I create a ‘model tutorial page’, that contains something like this:

Yes, and then we should include a link to it from the main category page, as there is on the main Tag Ref page.

OK, so if you agree, we need to add the ‘Mininav tutorials’ template to, and remove the Tutorials category from the tutorial pages. Let me know where I can help!

Please add the model tutorial page, and add the mininav to as many tutorials as you feel like getting to, and I’ll do likewise (with the mininav).

Edit: I’ll work in reverse alphabetical order through the tutorials.

Edit again: and remove the Tutorial category from articles.

One more time: I’ve added the mininav and removed the top-level category as discussed. On the sub-category pages, where there is very little content in the page itself, the mininav conflicts with the article list. Looks like a float/positioning conflict. Maybe the simplest solution is to come up with a paragraph or two for each sub-category page.

Last edited by jsoo (2009-10-04 20:25:51)

els · 2009-10-04 20:53:22

Whoa, you’re too fast for me to keep up ;)

the mininav conflicts with the article list. Looks like a float/positioning conflict.

~~Do you think it’s that bad?~~ (See my edit 2 below.)

Maybe the simplest solution is to come up with a paragraph or two for each sub-category page.

No problem if you can write them ;)

I’ll now go and add that model tutorial page, before there’s nothing left to do for me…

Edit: Maybe Nora can solve that positioning problem?

Edit 2: Is this a possible temporary solution?

Edit 3: I think adding a clear:right; to #mw-pages in the CSS will solve it.

Last edited by els (2009-10-04 21:02:37)

jsoo · 2009-10-04 21:24:30

Els wrote:

Is this a possible temporary solution?

Yes, let’s keep it till a) Nora comes up with a CSS-based solution, or b) appropriate blurbs for each sub-category page appear.

els · 2009-10-04 21:30:15

…add that model tutorial page

Done.

Bloke · 2009-10-05 08:10:38

Nothing to add apart from to say: nice work you two. Tutorials pages are lookin’ sweeeeeet and it’s much easier to find stuff now. Where’s that thumbs up emoticon when you need it…

nabrown78 · 2009-10-07 15:17:58

Hm. I haven’t been getting the updates to this thread, though it says I’m subscribed…Argh, will review what’s been said recently.

…

Okay, so as far as I know (and I’m not saying I really do know) I don’t have server access. If I did, I’d be happy to make the CSS changes discussed in this forum to improve the layout of the Tutorials page.

I think the mininav is excellent, and I think we can make a lot of progress with the CSS improvements as well as with renaming and using the custom-alphabetization feature judiciously.

els · 2009-10-07 16:51:18

Nora, if you can edit the css file, I’ll see if I can manage to get it on the server (never done that, but I do have access…).

Destry · 2009-10-08 11:36:30

Nora, with the server credentials you have, you can indeed work with server files, as can Els and Bloke too now.

I’ll try and keep in the loop a bit more and help if there’s problems.

Oh, and anybody should be able to use templates, not just people with sysop privileges.

Last edited by Destry (2009-10-08 12:35:32)

Destry · 2009-10-08 12:44:18

BTW, it’s nice to see everyone fixing up the Tutorials.

The state they were in was never meant to be considered “done” (nothing in a wiki ever is). When I redesigned the wiki and made the global IA changes, the Tutorials was part of that process but only partly finished; I just pulled out the stand-alone explanation pages that were in All Pages and gave them a top level home (Tutorials) so we could put a main nav link to them. I put them in a category knowing that when there was a enough of them they would be subcategorized a bit. Granted the alphabetizing nature of the wiki categories doesn’t always work at the page title level (unlike for Tags, e.g.,), which you guys are realizing and dealing with nicely.

Bravo!

els · 2009-10-08 21:26:57

Since Destry wrote:

I’ll be jumping into the wiki presentation again soon to bring the theme into alignment with the new .com design

I assume we’d better leave the css alone for now?

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#31 2009-10-04 16:08:59

Re: [wiki] Tutorials page: layout & scope

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Re: [wiki] Tutorials page: layout & scope

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Re: [wiki] Tutorials page: layout & scope

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Re: [wiki] Tutorials page: layout & scope

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Re: [wiki] Tutorials page: layout & scope

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Re: [wiki] Tutorials page: layout & scope

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