Evolving Textpattern System Requirements - An Informal Poll

rsilletti · 2009-07-19 04:53:55

I think the current requirements are discouraging much in the way of forward looking plugin development. To advance those requirements would require a tradeoff in terms of server options available, but it would encourage more development by facilitating a longer life span for the code, PHP5+ will happen sooner or later.

thebombsite · 2009-07-19 10:13:18

There are many hosts out there who still use PHP4 though often you are able to use PHP5 via htaccess. This doesn’t make them bad hosts. Far from it. Some people find that not having a load of downtime and being able to contact their host for help with something and actually getting that help is far more important than having the latest software versions. I also note, as with a previous commenter, that MySQL seems more likely to be up-to-date than PHP.

It’s a bit of a “Catch 22” question really. There’s the desire to “keep up with the Jones’ “ against having a site which is actually available for visitors to see, or to put it another way, host reliability.

It would be great if we could all have both but I’m afraid this is the real world not a dream world.

wet · 2009-07-19 10:46:11

Minimum system requirements of popular LAMP CMSs and blog scripts for shared hosting:

What	PHP	MySQL
WordPress 2.8+	4.3+ (5.2+ buys you DST support)	4.0+
Drupal 6	4.3.5 (5.2 recommended)	4.1
Joomla!	4.3.10 (5.2+ recommended)	3.23 (4.1.x recommended)
MODxCMS	4.3.11	4.1.20
CMS Made Simple	4.3+	3.23
EE	4.1	3.23

I assume that hosting providers align their product offerings with the requirements of the major applications.

ruud · 2009-07-19 11:15:35

If we like to be known for offering good security. We should expect that people use TXP alongside software that still receives security updates, so we can drop support for PHP/MySQL versions that no longer receive security updates.

MySQL 4.1 is in its extended support phase. We no longer routinely provide security updates in this location. Security fixes for MySQL 4.1 are only made available through the source repository

So if you must, you can still get security fixes for MySQL 4.1, although you’ll have to patch manually.

PHP 4.4.9 (august 7th, 2008) – This release wraps up all the outstanding patches for the PHP 4.4 series, and is therefore the last PHP 4.4 release.

and

PHP 4 end of life announcement (july 13th 2007)
The PHP development team hereby announces that support for PHP 4 will continue until the end of this year only. After 2007-12-31 there will be no more releases of PHP 4.4. We will continue to make critical security fixes available on a case-by-case basis until 2008-08-08. Please use the rest of this year to make your application suitable to run on PHP 5.

Last PHP 5.0.x: Version 5.0.5, 05-Sep-2005
Last PHP 5.1.x: Version 5.1.6, 24-Aug-2006

I think it’s safe to assume that neither 5.0 nor 5.1 get any security updates either.

So I’d require PHP 5.2+ and MySQL 4.1+ or preferably Mysql 5.0+

artagesw · 2009-07-19 16:43:53

thebombsite wrote:

It would be great if we could all have both but I’m afraid this is the real world not a dream world.

Actually, there are quite a few great hosts that offer both.

ruud wrote:

If we like to be known for offering good security. We should expect that people use TXP alongside software that still receives security updates, so we can drop support for PHP/MySQL versions that no longer receive security updates.

Exactly.

So I’d require PHP 5.2+ and MySQL 4.1+ or preferably Mysql 5.0+

This is where I’m leaning.

Also, I don’t see the fact that many other CMS applications still run on PHP4 as an influencing factor. They may have different circumstances and different goals. Security is an area where Textpattern has always been a leader, so if we’re the first to officially ditch PHP4, it is somewhat fitting in that respect.

Hey, and don’t overlook the many other benefits . For instance, we can join the go PHP 5 movement and apply their lovely logo to our home page! (kidding)

For those who have raised concerns about maintaining sites on hosts that do not support PHP5, those concerns are certainly valid. It should be noted that those sites may be maintained indefinitely on an older installation of Textpattern. At some point, if the additional features of newer versions of Textpattern are compelling enough to induce a desire to upgrade, that would be the time to consider finding a new host.

mrdale · 2009-07-19 17:15:16

I’m just fine with php5+/mysql5+ All my servers are in line with this.

I guess the question is really, how many people are going to get left behind? I wouldn’t want to ratchet up the requirements if it would turn a significant chunk of potential users away.

So… maybe the best approach would be similar to what Apple is doing with Snow Leopard. Continue to refine the software to work with existing requirements but announce that the next major release will have updated requirements. This gives people time to adjust their plans, incentive to upgrade and it gives people with old hardware a strong release to continue to use. In the case of TXP, you could make it simple.

Make Textpattern 5.0 is for PHP5+/mySQL5+ pretty simple for people no?

You could feature freeze 4.x, refine it for bugs, do a thorough housekeeping, release a final 4.x. Then make the dev branch 5.x

Just some thoughts.

artagesw · 2009-07-19 17:58:20

Yes, I believe it is reasonable to assume we would establish a clear end-of support policy for the PHP4/MySQL3-dependent branch, which would provide for security patches only (no new features) for some period of time (say 6 months). This should give users plenty of time to make plans for upgrading their servers, switching hosts, etc.

candyman · 2009-07-20 07:18:25

I agree with simplification of mrdale.

plam · 2009-07-21 14:45:20

Gocom wrote:

plam wrote:

Using PHP5.3.0, I needed already to hack “/index.php” and “/textpattern/index.php” to disable PHP warnings about deprecated functions.

Current deprecated stuff have been fixed in 4.2.0.
————
I used 4.08 in a local development envirement…

masa · 2009-07-22 02:31:41

artagesw wrote:

My lifetime plan was migrated over no problem.

Excuse my ignorance, but what’s a “lifetime plan”?

I have a few sites on Textdrive and they’re using MySQL 4.1.22-log. Would I just need to mail Joyent support asking to upgrade my account?

colak · 2009-07-22 05:13:06

Hi Martin

Lifetime plans (also known as VCI, VCII, VCIII, etc) are accounts some of us bought which do not have monthly/yearly fees. It was an one down payment for lifetime. These were given out at the beginning (and at different times ) of textdrive’s life and the money we gave were used to buy the servers/raids/whatever needed.

Re upgrading txd accounts, I was directed to golden tickets

Mary · 2009-07-22 15:07:26

I am for requiring PHP 5.2 and MySQL 5.0.

Folks on older servers can use the last version of Txp that works for their setup. They are already exposed to security issues and lots of bugs with their use of software that is no longer being patched, and should get used to the fact that older software doesn’t have the bells and whistles that new stuff does.

So there.

;P

(By the way, I was a VC3 of TextDrive, got my golden ticket, and am on a shiny Joyent shared accelerator now.)

masa · 2009-07-22 15:41:54

Thanks Yiannis, I see.

Re upgrading txd accounts, I was directed to golden tickets

This sounded fairly simple until I read their recommendations

I don’t understand half of what they’re talking about there :-) Is it really that compllicated?
If so I wouldn’t expect anyone but the geekiest users to go through this.

Why should Txp raise the bar higher than any of the other CMSs? Currently Txp isn’t widely used and I don’t think upping the requirements way above the competition will do anything to increase it’s user base.

Sorry, I just don’t see the point.

Last edited by masa (2009-07-22 15:46:33)

artagesw · 2009-07-22 16:32:58

Mary wrote:

Folks on older servers can use the last version of Txp that works for their setup. They are already exposed to security issues and lots of bugs with their use of software that is no longer being patched, and should get used to the fact that older software doesn’t have the bells and whistles that new stuff does.

Precisely.

masa wrote:

Why should Txp raise the bar higher than any of the other CMSs?

I think this was covered in the original post. :)

masa · 2009-07-22 16:52:59

artagesw wrote:

I think this was covered in the original post. :)

Sam, I can understand that from a developer’s point of view.

What I’m wondering is whether Txp can afford it. I really doubt this will increase its adoption rate.

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#31 2009-07-19 04:53:55

Re: Evolving Textpattern System Requirements - An Informal Poll

#32 2009-07-19 10:13:18

Re: Evolving Textpattern System Requirements - An Informal Poll

#33 2009-07-19 10:46:11

Re: Evolving Textpattern System Requirements - An Informal Poll

#34 2009-07-19 11:15:35

Re: Evolving Textpattern System Requirements - An Informal Poll

#35 2009-07-19 16:43:53

Re: Evolving Textpattern System Requirements - An Informal Poll

#36 2009-07-19 17:15:16

Re: Evolving Textpattern System Requirements - An Informal Poll

#37 2009-07-19 17:58:20

Re: Evolving Textpattern System Requirements - An Informal Poll

#38 2009-07-20 07:18:25

Re: Evolving Textpattern System Requirements - An Informal Poll

#39 2009-07-21 14:45:20

Re: Evolving Textpattern System Requirements - An Informal Poll

#40 2009-07-22 02:31:41

Re: Evolving Textpattern System Requirements - An Informal Poll

#41 2009-07-22 05:13:06

Re: Evolving Textpattern System Requirements - An Informal Poll

#42 2009-07-22 15:07:26

Re: Evolving Textpattern System Requirements - An Informal Poll

#43 2009-07-22 15:41:54

Re: Evolving Textpattern System Requirements - An Informal Poll

#44 2009-07-22 16:32:58

Re: Evolving Textpattern System Requirements - An Informal Poll

#45 2009-07-22 16:52:59

Re: Evolving Textpattern System Requirements - An Informal Poll

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