Opportunity to gently tweak TXP logo

mrdale · 2009-03-13 21:27:08

URG! Design by comittee.

As an aging (40) designer, I’ve been through this process many times and have learned to avoid situations where there’s more than one or two points of contact. Put simply you can’t treat a single image as a shopping basket for ideas, put in a little more “this” take out a little more “that”.

Frankenstineing is what I’ve come to call that process and it, and with logo design it never works.

Good work Phillip, hope your idea survives.

saccade · 2009-03-13 22:46:23

Hi, unfortunately I’m stick to other work and so only now saw this topic.
Nice work, and I admire the contribution, but I have two concerns:

1)
I like the main idea and parts of the old/current logo. Especially that a person (or more specific: a craftsperson) is visualized. It gives txp that notion of real people publishing. A logo without a handcrafts person will be much more anonymous and has a more ‘technoid’ feeling. For me: please hold the human aspect.
(Of course it could use a courageous redesign to match needs of favicons and small sizes – but I think the idea of showing a human at work is a great one. It always made txp sympathetic to me)

2)
From the view of invaluable worth of real craftsmanship in my eyes there is a big shortcoming: the tools in the new logo seem to be not correct to me. This hammer and this chisel aren’t made for (text) carving. They are for much rougher, dirty work.
As txp code is built very carefully I think it is essential, that the logo reflects that awareness of using the right tools in the most sophisticated skillful way.
An image search of “carving tools” or “stone carving tools” will show some examples and even some explanations which tools are the correct ones.
(some fast collected examples here, here and here and “ideal use for letter carving” here, here )
From my view a woodden mallet and a fine chisel would be much more appealing (as shown here).
(some more good pictures here and here both showing fine work on text, another one and a fine one ).

Those tools in belipe’s in my eyes aren’t the appropriate ones.
And at least in Germany this symbol of crossed metal hammer and rough chisel will tell “mining” or “workday”.
I think, that isn’t, what we want to say about textpattern.

(just controlling the links I saw, that the last link – with the woodden mallet!! – is “royalforestofdean” and “forest-of-dean” – dean ;-) )

Edit next morning: I want to point out, that I appreciate belipe’s work. It is excellent. Thanks a lot, belipe! For me it just doesn’t match those two important points above.
And independent from any word about other people’s work I want to throw in these two elements: human/person and correct tools as key elements.

Edit 2: For every finetuning of the carver person: The body working position seems to be still common in non-industrial contexts. And maybe this picture could make the anatomy more clear, another one .

Last edited by saccade (2009-03-14 15:50:25)

els · 2009-03-14 00:32:44

I think Kemie’s work is closest to the original mandate.

(Don’t mind me either, I’m not a designer, but I’m quite attached to the current logo.)

redbot · 2009-03-14 01:30:28

I know I have the bad habit to pollute forums and I should just shut up but I can’t take myself, sorry.
I’m with mrdale: design by commettee leads inevitably to a bad result. Belipe’s work IMHO should be taken or rejected as it is.
For me, of course, it should become the new logo.

maverick · 2009-03-14 03:52:33

fwiw

I too agree on design by committee.

I dislike being critical of another person’s work.

I appreciate Belipe’s work, and see some positives.

However, if I were choosing, I would look at other options. It didn’t connect for me.

mrdale · 2009-03-14 17:14:02

Why are we all so hung up on the naked stonemason? It’s become almost as much of a sacred cow as a crucifix.

How does it relate to a lightweight efficient CMS anyway?

saccade · 2009-03-14 17:30:38

Hi Dale,
no, no sacred cow nor a crucifix.

But it visualizes those human beings, which this lightweight efficient CMS is made for.

This very basic human being (almost naked) makes a difference to all other CMSs, which daily are getting more and more.
For me from the beginning this was an essential appealing factor, and I could say “this is me” : Almost naked regarding my skills in PHP, MySQL and so on, but wanting to present something staying in the world (letters in stone).
Textpattern was the basic (and easy to handle) tool to do this. You can publish your texts and message within an hour from first touch to textpattern. You don’t need an industrial machine or big big server and memory (and so on) – it’s easy like hammer and chisel.
Also I liked the idea of craftsmanship which accompanied textpattern from the beginning.

A good logo has to tell a story, and this stonecarver-logo tells a story. A story in which I as a human have a place. Not a thing nor a technique itself.
I’d be very unhappy if we would loose that.

The efficiency of this CMS is shown here in direct visual connection to the human/user using it – this is in my eyes the utmost best way to show efficiency.

Edit: And apart from my personal and possibly biased approach there are at least two neutral factors, which make me think the stonemason is right for Textpattern:

The “story” of a logo
and the difference it makes to other CMSs.

Last edited by saccade (2009-03-14 17:58:56)

masa · 2009-03-14 20:10:26

saccade wrote:

But it visualizes those human beings, which this lightweight efficient CMS is made for.

I agree with Michael, that the human aspect of the current logo is important and should not get lost. It does set Textpattern apart from other CMSs in making it feel much less technical and thereby more friendly than other choices. In fact the look of its simple and clean interface stresses that.

I also think continuity is very important, so a face-lift, as the thread’s title suggests, might be the better option.

mrdale · 2009-03-14 21:52:17

masa wrote:
bq. …making it feel much less technical and thereby more friendly than other choices.

Really? A stonemason says all that? I really don’t care that much but I do feel at times like we’re building an ornate scaffolding of meaning around a simple image to rationalize it’s continued use and any attempts to change it.

Unless you’re going to be alongside everyone that looks at this logo, you’d better assume that no-one will understand any of this over-intellectualized abstraction of an idea.

IMHO: You can only visually convey one or two very simple ideas with a single image. The best logos are one’s where you immediately understand what they mean and why. 99.9% of people will not have a clue about the differences between chisel types. The same percentage of people will recognize what a hammer and a chisel does.

Ultimately, I don’t really care. I use a different UI theme anyway. But I do think that hammer and chisel was a great streamlining of an older idea. Kudos to the designer. I just feel for an idea that started as great work and is getting frakensteined to death.

Peace. Out.

Last edited by mrdale (2009-03-14 23:56:08)

Neko · 2009-03-14 22:19:02

We’re making up background stories about the carver for no reason. :)

I don’t know… given the peculiar background of Dean Allen, author of the current logo, who has been, or still is, a book designer and a typographer and a guy that helped spreading knowledge about type setting, history of typography and so on, to me it’s pretty obvious why we’ve got the carver. It’s Text ile, Text pattern, Text drive, etc…

(complete page here)

I’d be curious, if Dean were still on the forums, what he would come up with if he had the chance or the need to design a new logo.

In my opinion, the tools are just tools, being those a chisel or a set of PHP scripts that allows you to maintain your blog.

Plus, Belipe’s work is modern, well crafted, eye catching and looks good on any size. :)

belipe · 2009-03-15 00:04:46

saccade wrote:

it’s easy like hammer and chisel.

Now, that’s what I’m talking about. I made the stonemason retire because he made things too complicated for a logo. No successful logo I know shows the person it actually addresses to. I bet Nike e.g. wouldn’t be a prosperous company if they had a logo showing a person being content with its shoes ;-)

saccade wrote:

A good logo has to tell a story

First of all good logo has to work :-) It has to work in different sizes, maybe colors, be easily recognizable, and it should have an impact on the viewer. As I was also a bit concerned about the Lack of Momentum my main objective was to carry the visual identity of Textpattern to this millennium. That’s why I tried and designed a new version but I couldn’t find a solution that would incorporate the stonemason that had an impact similar to the tool version you see above.

The story of the most gentle and intelligent CMS in the world should be told by the users, not by the logo. And, in case my solution ought to be the new TXP logo I’m sure that you will soon be sensing the human touch of the logo.

Peace.

saccade · 2009-03-15 10:48:56

Hi, Philipp,

nice to hear from you. I didn’t regard an asked feedback as “Frankensteining” nor a “design by committee” but as simply friendly “feedback”. So I very much hope my feedback doesn’t offend you. :-)

Of course a logo has to work – and of course the stonemason is a very difficult one to boil it down to an appealing and working logo-form. But I think it has an enormous potential in branding textpattern. It is a real point setting txp apart in its visual representation. I would keep that.

And thanks for the correction of the ‘logo telling a story’:
I think I contracted my thought a bit too much condensed. Of course it’s the users, that tell the story.
I’m very much influenced of the “tell the logo”-concept (a short german abstract PDF can be found here) – after 25 years of accompanying and watching communities in branding (on both sides, with successes and failures) it is the most convincing concept for me.
I simply think, that a logo should have a potential of telling a story (this means it gets part of your life and of your memories – as most real good logos do). And the historic touch of an ageold and universal publishing technique and publishing wish/desire (let me stress that point as a base message of every redesign of the txp-logo) surely has potential for this and the next millennium too.

For me it is very interesting that you actually worked for or with a stonemason. What does he say to this topic?

Again: I know its a quite difficult task – but I think it can be done, too.

Last edited by saccade (2009-03-15 10:50:18)

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#37 2009-03-13 21:27:08

Re: Opportunity to gently tweak TXP logo

#38 2009-03-13 22:46:23

Re: Opportunity to gently tweak TXP logo

#39 2009-03-14 00:32:44

Re: Opportunity to gently tweak TXP logo

#40 2009-03-14 01:30:28

Re: Opportunity to gently tweak TXP logo

#41 2009-03-14 03:52:33

Re: Opportunity to gently tweak TXP logo

#42 2009-03-14 17:14:02

Re: Opportunity to gently tweak TXP logo

#43 2009-03-14 17:30:38

Re: Opportunity to gently tweak TXP logo

#44 2009-03-14 20:10:26

Re: Opportunity to gently tweak TXP logo

#45 2009-03-14 21:52:17

Re: Opportunity to gently tweak TXP logo

#46 2009-03-14 22:19:02

Re: Opportunity to gently tweak TXP logo

#47 2009-03-15 00:04:46

Re: Opportunity to gently tweak TXP logo

#48 2009-03-15 10:48:56

Re: Opportunity to gently tweak TXP logo

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