punbb 1.3

hcgtv · 2008-11-18 17:14:30

Bloke wrote:

I like the sound of Phorum. If it can take Textile and/or Markdown I might give it a spin on my testbed.

I don’t want to sidetrack this post but on the subject of Textile in a forum, I think it should be a per user option. Forcing everybody to use Textile or Markdown over BBCode can be confusing to the new TxP user, even I get confused at times. BBCode is the standard on all forums, and if you bounce around forums like I do, visiting this forum makes you have to think when posting and that could turn off posters. With a well implemented BBCode toolbar, like Phorum has, Textile becomes less of a need, at least that’s my thinking.

colak wrote:

Looks interesting but I’m not certain if threaded posts are a good idea. Although it is there for usability, it actually makes the forum harder to follow as there is no good system yet regarding reading new posts etc.

Threaded posts are an option, you can toggle them on and off. As for new posts, there is a recent messages module that has many options to follow new messages. There’s talk of making the recent messages module more interactive, since Ajax has been introduced into Phorum. I believe the goal is to set the screen to auto update whenever a new post or reply is made (great for moderators).

Destry · 2008-11-18 18:22:15

Thanks for the matrix link, Bert. Giving the systems a cursory glance, I don’t think I’d touch most of them for one reason or another:

ASP
.NET
no UTF-8 support
costs money
blatant visual rip-off of phpBB (bad choice anyway)
too new (and likely small community)

I’ve always liked punBB for it’s straightforward interface and ideals (like Bloke was getting at), but Phorum is interesting and the simplified templating could be very useful here. I think it’s a bit odd they say they are “the original” forum system around since 1998. I’ve never heard of them until today. Still, a plausible candidate.

As for BBCode, I don’t like it, bu I can fly either way if I have to (and do in the various forums I participate in), because I know the Textile implementation is not a cinch to do and maintain (at least it didn’t used to be). Bert might be right about forum newbies, but us vets, I’m sure, would not like to see Textile go, which has been functioning in this forum since day one (I’m fairly certain). A functioning, stable option at the very least.

Colak, you’re right about the discussion of architecture (forums and such) being a new thread, but it’s probably premature until there are named forum dedicants (I made that up, meaning dedicated forum masters) and picked a system, definitively.

I nominate Yiannis and Bert to be co-forum managers!

Last edited by Destry (2008-11-18 18:23:40)

Bloke · 2008-11-18 21:58:04

hcgtv wrote:

… Textile in a forum, I think it should be a per user option.

Totally. That’s why I modded PunBB the way I did in that link up there; it’s BBCode out of the box/for new users, but each person had a dropdown that can be toggled between BBCode, Textile or Markdown. The admin has a global dropdown to enable/disable Textile or Markdown depending on whether they’ve installed either; the ones they haven’t enabled aren’t given as options to the users. If Phorum can be twisted into allowing something similar (plugin or hack), I’m all over it.

As for threaded forums, I don’t like them but to have the option would be great for those that do. And the AJAX-style recent message sounds interesting; would save having to click Show New Posts all the time or relying on feeds (for which I’ve never found a reader that agrees with me, but that’s a separate issue)

Destry wrote:

I nominate Yiannis and Bert to be co-forum managers!

Winner ;-)

wet · 2008-11-19 05:35:21

First questions first, please, from a forum layman: What are the reasons our PunBB doesn’t cut it anymore?

Destry · 2008-11-19 08:49:40

Good, simple question.

We are facing the same considerations here and I would honestly like to know now that Rickard has since exited the scene. Judging from the improvements in 1.3, I’d say there’s not a lot of argument for — an unnecessary — migration.

These improvements (just a few of them) look darn good to me:

One click extension installation, no need to modify forum’s code anymore
More customazable styles, templating system
New layout: markup, CSS, language files updated, markup helper functions added. (Would first like to see this “new layout”)
URL rewriting schemes, nice URL’s built-in
Split/merge topics functionality. / rubs eyes and rereads / Merge – topics – functionality !! (That’s a deal maker right there.)

Last edited by Destry (2008-11-19 08:55:05)

hcgtv · 2008-11-19 16:00:03

wet wrote:

First questions first, please, from a forum layman: What are the reasons our PunBB doesn’t cut it anymore?

You can keep running PunBB 1.2, it’s a very solid and secure code base. Though there are niceties that exist in other forums that would help the moderators do a better job.

The big thing in PunBB 1.3 is UTF8 support and Extensions. The upgrade script will convert your database, though there’s been bumps with the process, hopefully they’ll get ironed out. Extensions take away the need to mod the forum code, like Mary has done here for subforums and other enhancements.

Smartys, upon our request, added the split/merge functionality before he abruptly departed the scene. This was a feature sorely missing and from a moderator point of view, is a good reason to upgrade to 1.3. Smartys was the lead developer after Rickard left for personal reasons, Smartys may surface again some day.

There have been improvements to the styles but there is no true templating system. Paul did allude to the fact that 1.3 could be made to look like Vanilla but has yet to show me such a theme. Pun’s strength and weakness is how closely the forum’s style is embedded into the PHP code. This gives Pun it’s very fast rendering times but also handcuffs the web developer from making Pun look anything but boxy. Without a templating system, you have to delve into the PHP code to make your forum stand out, which in essence takes away from the benefits of the Extension system.

Like I said, 1.2 is solid, but whether it’s a long term option, is the question.

hcgtv · 2008-11-19 16:40:05

Bloke wrote:

That’s why I modded PunBB the way I did in that link up there; it’s BBCode out of the box/for new users, but each person had a dropdown that can be toggled between BBCode, Textile or Markdown. The admin has a global dropdown to enable/disable Textile or Markdown depending on whether they’ve installed either; the ones they haven’t enabled aren’t given as options to the users.

Quick question. How do you handle quoting? Let’s say I use BBCode and someone presses the quote link but they use Textile?

colak · 2008-11-19 16:46:47

I found Punbb 1.2.x solid until our forum was hit by a wave of bot induced registrations which were not even stopped by the email verification system.
Then we had a wave of spam posts mostly about porn sites.

With the Captia plugin now officially supported by the PunBB devs, the attacks, although still active produce no results.

Another problem i had with 1.2.x was the number of mods needed. The new pluin system looks like it will be functional and I expect a proliferation of plugins, not unlike what we have here on txp.

Although I am following the progress of flux, it is still early stages and there is no way of telling where it will go.
Rickard leaving PunBB was to be expected. Open sourse software is very much like hurdles, code changes hands and the speed is hopefully maintained.

Bloke · 2008-11-19 16:55:40

hcgtv wrote:

Quick question. How do you handle quoting?

Currently, it’d explode :-)

I figured it was kind of hard graft to be able to accurately detect which type of system a person was using simply based on the marked up content. So like a true champion when faced with adversity… I ignored it for my first-draft attempt. Which is why I never went live with the forum in the end.

However, it’s not forgotten. The simplest solution is probably — as long as there’s a hook on the Quote event; I haven’t checked — to look up the quoted user’s current markup system and render that post as HTML on the fly via TextileThis() or the BBCode/Markdown equivalent. By displaying HTML as the quoted text, everything else can continue as normal.

It ain’t foolproof (if the quoted user has changed markup systems and someone is quoting an ancient post, for example) but it’s probably good enough, short of coming up with some clever algorithm to detect a markup system from within a sea of text. If there are any theories on this, btw, I’d be most interested to hear of an approach.

hcgtv · 2008-11-19 18:11:51

Bloke wrote:

It ain’t foolproof (if the quoted user has changed markup systems and someone is quoting an ancient post, for example) but it’s probably good enough, short of coming up with some clever algorithm to detect a markup system from within a sea of text. If there are any theories on this, btw, I’d be most interested to hear of an approach.

I think you have to store, in the post record, the markup that was used at the time the post was written. Then if you quote a post that uses Textile and you’re using BBCode, the post has to be converted to BBCode markup for your ease of use.

Another option is to always store the post as BBCode, then do an on the fly conversion to Textile before displaying the post to the user. Which is what I would lean towards, since then the database sits in standard BBCode, for the ease of other extensions or conversion to another forum system.

Bloke · 2008-11-19 18:31:55

hcgtv wrote:

I think you have to store, in the post record, the markup that was used at the time the post was written.

That makes sense. Way more sensible than my crap idea!

Another option is to always store the post as BBCode, then do an on the fly conversion to Textile before displaying the post to the user.

Hmmm, makes sense from a “keeping everything pure” standpoint but holy smokes, how the hell do you implement it? A BBCode to Textile conversion algorithm is out of my league; and wouldn’t it slow down page render times an order of magnitude…? Anyway, this is probably a bit OT now, sorry for the diversion.

Last edited by Bloke (2008-11-19 18:32:09)

hcgtv · 2008-11-19 19:19:03

Bloke wrote:

A BBCode to Textile conversion algorithm is out of my league; and wouldn’t it slow down page render times an order of magnitude…?

Check out markItUp!

Textpattern CMS

Textpattern CMS support forum

#13 2008-11-18 17:14:30

Re: punbb 1.3

#14 2008-11-18 18:22:15

Re: punbb 1.3

#15 2008-11-18 21:58:04

Re: punbb 1.3

#16 2008-11-19 05:35:21

Re: punbb 1.3

#17 2008-11-19 08:49:40

Re: punbb 1.3

#18 2008-11-19 16:00:03

Re: punbb 1.3

#19 2008-11-19 16:40:05

Re: punbb 1.3

#20 2008-11-19 16:46:47

Re: punbb 1.3

#21 2008-11-19 16:55:40

Re: punbb 1.3

#22 2008-11-19 18:11:51

Re: punbb 1.3

#23 2008-11-19 18:31:55

Re: punbb 1.3

#24 2008-11-19 19:19:03

Re: punbb 1.3

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