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Re: Centering floats
where you have IE6 and floats you have bugs. That is just a fact of life. There are a whole range of hacks available to counter IE6 problems. Since IE6 is still greatly used 22.6% most of us can’t as yet brush IE6 of history.
They say patience is a virtue… , Good luck with those hacks ;-)
Last edited by Timid&friendly (2008-10-26 07:32:20)
I think, therefore I AM, … … er … I think :-?
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Re: Centering floats
Hi David. I am anti-hacks! For one reason, who can remember why the hack was applied, and what about site updates? PITA! Anything that works cross browser (the major browsers) is a wonderful thing!
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Re: Centering floats
Hi Jonathan,
Most of us are anti hacks, and Utopia is a wonderful place to live.
Unfortunately in world of inconsistent and/or partial standard implementation more complex design requirements often regretfully necessitate their use. Having said that i’m glad you design doesn’t require them. HOOWA!
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Re: Centering floats
Having said that i’m glad you design doesn’t require them
Hacks aren’t required: you can always use alternative solutions. It takes time, but it is thing that makes you feel pro :) (I haven’t used hacks since 2006, only addtions for old browsers, mostly 1px extra paddings to remove IE5.5/6 background rendering bugs, using 24-bit pngs instead 32 etc, adding spaces before text-indent-elements x 10 etc)…
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Re: Centering floats
Gocom wrote:
Hacks aren’t required… only addtions for old browsers, mostly 1px extra paddings… adding spaces before text-indent-elements…
OT: Which — to my mind — are hacks :-P
What’s a hack if it’s not a thing you have to do to the stylesheet to fix a bug / layout issue in a prolific browser that can’t do things properly most of the time?! You’re fixing their code for them :-)
Like, I think using a complete HTML table on a page with single-px gifs etc was a ‘hack’ to get round layout limitations in the old days. Now I lay stuff out according to the standards and use a stylesheet called iehacks.css inside conditional comments that house all the stupid things I have to override to get IE6 to do what it should.
I guess your definition of ‘hack’ and mine differ!
Anyway, back on topic…
Last edited by Bloke (2008-10-26 19:49:06)
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Re: Centering floats
I define hacks as invalid selectors, using comment tweaks, using browser bugs as a fixes, adding mass amout of code to fix browser issues, using browser conditionals and only browser specific attributes.
If float clearing padding is a hack… :D
Last edited by Gocom (2008-10-26 21:27:26)
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Re: Centering floats
Gocom wrote:
I define hacks as… <snip>
Gotcha. Makes sense. I’ll get back in my box.
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Re: Centering floats
Simple designs are easy to set up without the use of hacks. But if you need pixel perfect results in all currently used browsers you almost always need hacks. In some designs you wouldn’t notice if the things were a pixel out. But for designers a pixel can mean the difference between a nice page and a great page.
It all depends on how rich your GUI is. But i can understand programmers not being so bothered with this sort of thing.
Last edited by Timid&friendly (2008-10-27 17:11:52)
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Re: Centering floats
Timid&friendly wrote:
It all depends on how rich your GUI is. But i can understand programmers not being so bothered with this sort of thing.
I’ve been a designer for couple years of period. Also I still design in my freetime… so who’s the non-caring programmer? And, no you can’t see the 1px difference, if you add it outside the layout: the layout isn’t required to follow the lines structure.
But you said it “almost always need”, and there is the opposite marginal – ppl that use so much time to write perfect code that they don’t need’em. Those do the “expectation”.
Remember, you can’t say what other’s need to make things work and what they don’t (well you could say “make hover work in IE with divs with out ‘hacks’” that is impossible, it requires javascript (or comment play), if we count it as a hack) :)
Last edited by Gocom (2008-10-27 17:45:00)
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Re: Centering floats
Gocom wrote:
But you said it “almost always need”, and there is the opposite marginal – ppl that use so much time to write perfect code that they don’t need’em. Those do the “expectation”. Remember, you can’t say what other’s need to make things work and what they don’t (well you could say “make hover work in IE with divs with out ‘hacks’” that is impossible, it requires javascript (or comment play), if we count it as a hack) :)
Not quite sure what you are saying here. Do you mean some purests spend so much time trying craft perfect code that in production environments it’s not cost effective, if that is the case then i’m in agreement. And yeah of course you have to find the balance.
Every design has it’s own challenges and if you want to create something visually original, with a rich interface, that is accessible, semantically structure, progressively enhanced, then you will probably bump into browser issues/limitations. BTW That doesn’t mean i’m telling people you must hack lol. The question is what do you do then? play safe, compromise or “be creative and try to stretch the boundaries of what is possible” (hack, sorry i used the H word).
I just wanted to make the very unfashionable yet IMHO realistic point, that contrary to the purest mantra, it is not a mortal sin to use * html .myclass {height:1px; etc etc} or that similar hack if that is the most effective way to deal with a bug. If you can avoid using hacks then it is of course a no-brainer, but if you can’t just be aware of the implications.
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