TxP.com home page

Destry · 2008-09-17 07:49:54

Destry wrote:

I like the fact content is in two rows and not more. I think a third row would cross the line into too much, unless it was just a row for things like designer quotes or whatever (just like the initial wireframe evolved too). If this means deciding what content gets moved to inner pages, so be it. Maybe better use of the footer would solve the problem if more content space is justified.

I know feelings differ on the issue of content volume on the home page. A general rule of thumb in web content is “less is more.” (It depends on the piece in question, but in this case, for a product site, I think it’s very true.) So it occurred to me to expand on this notion of limited rows.

In order to keep a two row limit (three if for quotations and a buddy “Download” block) and still maximize communication, what if the second row was four columns instead of three. Certainly four blocks would be enough allotments (plus the footer) to say what needs said and lead people in? Just a thought.

You could gain a fifth column by moving the download link to the main menu (a la WordPress). Does it really need to be a big overblown button? (I’m still impressed each time I visit the WordPress site; it’s truly A+).

Oh, and looking at the WP site again, what about the Textpattern book? That’s a worthwhile picture. :)

Oh, and wouldn’t it be cool to have translations of the site in say Chinese, Russian and Arabic? That would blow the competition’s sites out of the water and speak to a very LARGE market.

Last edited by Destry (2008-09-17 08:02:57)

zero · 2008-09-17 17:18:43

Bloke wrote:

Done ; first draft at least. Any more, anyone?

Brilliant, Stef!

Aarplane (and others who haven’t seemed to have got what I am on about), as it says clearly on the features by audience page to which you linked and in comments above, the present idea is to show only 4 or 5 items per audience (ie 4 or 5 × 3) on the front page but have all the other items available via some jQuery magic. Thus everyone is getting their wish because there have been requests for all kinds of things on the front page but obviously not the space to do it. Coders will know great ways to put all content in the source but only show a small amount. I know it’s easy to do via javascript hide and show, or by using overflow:scroll in css, or even showing it on hover, but I am presuming that jQuery will allow super cool ways to present the items. (The TXP Network Links at the top of this page is one example). So there won’t be a need to go to another page. However, the present feature list which is organized quite differently can still be accessed via a Features link in the menu. This does not replace the feature list, but is a new variation on it plus Reasons to try. (Check the link again to see it’s current version)

My preference for the title of this section is Reasons To Love Textpattern or Reasons Why You Will Love Textpattern, depending on final presentation. I see it as fitting into and replacing those 3 horizontal boxes you see here or in the other wireframes. People seem to think I mean put 4 items and then link to an inner page, but I don’t mean that at all. In each list there can of course be links but the idea, as Bloke said earlier, is to show random items which will change on page refresh or on clicking a button. How exactly they will change, I don’t know yet. They could be another 4 items, or a dropdown to show all items, etc. It will all depend on the final design and what can be done that will be fully browser compatible and won’t fail.

It seems to me like a good solution to the content volume problem and will also show what txp is capable of with its inbuilt jQuery, or css. What do you think?

maniqui · 2008-09-17 17:55:05

Destry wrote:

Oh, and wouldn’t it be cool to have translations of the site in say Chinese, Russian and Arabic? That would blow the competition’s sites out of the water and speak to a very LARGE market.

Already proposed and already rejected :D

I’m all for a multilingual site, in the languages you suggested and also in other “main” languages as Français, Español, Deutsch, Portugués and Japanase.
Some problems: it has been rejected; it needs the MLP, which is a very little hack, not a plugin; we need the translated content, at least, fot the main content (!= dev weblog posts).

re: the rows:

first row: elevator pitch + slideshow alla Sin City.

second row: a level-2 heading for an “invisible” box wrapping/spanning the 3 column/boxes: For web publishers, For web designers, For web developers. The boxes should have a fixed height, which will require an almost-fixed content (equal qty of lines/list items).

third row: one column with the random quotes

fourth row?: three columns with the showcase, support and textpattern book?

Destry · 2008-09-18 07:45:10

maniqui wrote:

Already proposed and already rejected :D

Yeah, I know, and I really don’t care either way (not being left out with English). I just thought it would be cool to have those three languages specifically, considering they are not your average alternate language choices (like French, Spanish, German… are), thus different from competitor choices, and they are unique in that it might require different design considerations in each case (maybe Russian would fit the English layout easy enough). More work on the design side, yes, but interesting nonetheless.

I can name three people in our community that could translate each language, so in that respect it wouldn’t be an issue. I doubt it would be an issue technically either (an admin annoyance at most). What I do see being an issue, based on history, is squabbling about what languages will be translated, and that alone is reason to nix it.

squaredeye · 2008-09-18 14:37:32

From the content creators perspective, are we ready to see another iteration with some of these things in mind, in accordance with the thoughts/critique of my original wireframe, in accordance with the appreciation of Feedreader.com, and in alignment with what is presently the home

I’m not entirely sure what the level of change on the home page is at right now, and would like to base my next iteration on something reasonably stable (wording changing, but content elements [intro/elevator pitch, teasers/lead-ins, etc relatively fixed)

You all are doing an incredible job. I am so impressed with how on point this thread has mostly been, this is A MAJOR part of my enjoyment of Textpattern. This group.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Matthew

Destry · 2008-09-18 15:41:10

My impression: The content mashing continues, but the amorphous blob seems to be taking some kind of shape. I’ve had to step back from it to help detour more delays from debates on semantics. I throw in my two cents where the overall organization of the interface comes in, for what that’s worth. That post of Maniqui’s seems to grasp the current thick of things with regard to the home page.

I’ve been giving TextBook more attention by necessity. If I knew how the .com masthead at least would look, I could finish the TextBook skin dev, integrate it in the real TxB location and continue on with some content improvements there.

Last edited by Destry (2008-09-18 15:42:35)

zero · 2008-09-18 16:43:25

Based roughly on Feedreader.com layout (mainly these points made about it by Bloke):

What it is: one sentence
Why it stands out: two paragraphs + ‘find out more’, ‘screenshots’, & ‘download’ buttons
Two supporting reasons why it’s good, plus some dev info

plus taking into account maniqui’s ideas about audiences

plus nemooranges images and the promo space

plus my ‘solution’ for pleasing everybody:-)

I’ve put my preferred version here

Destry · 2008-09-19 11:01:17

zero wrote:

I’ve put my preferred version here

If that’s your preferred version, then I have to speak up, and I do so for the sake of copy and not to be a pain for the sake of it.

First, you say on that page “Home Page Content (by zero)”. Well, I see at least a few of my words there, and likely a great deal of Bloke’s efforts if not others. I would fairly say if you’re going to give yourself credit, give it all around or not at all. Being it’s a wiki, I’d wager not at all is more reasonable and we let wet decide how to handle credits (none being an option) when the time comes.

Now let’s consider some of the text.

Textpattern is a versatile, elegant and easy-to-use content management system. It is the catalyst between imagination and reality in web publishing. If you like free, open source software and a site done right with maximum efficiency, Textpattern is for you.

Problems:

Why do you insist on bloating this sentence? “Free”, “open source” and “software” is redundant. “done right” and “maximum efficiency” (my original words I’ve since given alternatives to) is somewhat redundant too. Say the same thing simpler while indicating you can create many sites not just one.

Better:

If you like open source and sites done efficiently, Textpattern is for you.

Start writing, skip the kerfuffle. When your site is built, you want to publish. So by default, Textpattern takes you right to the Write tab where you Just Write.

Problems:

“kerfuffle” ?? Was that you or nemoorange? Let’s remember wet’s feelings about “skeelz” and “knack” (knack being a much lighter word than kerfuffle)…“May I introduce my doubts that a non-native speaker…would keep either ‘skeelz’ or ‘knack’ in her everyday vocabulary. We won’t have the energy to support a multilingual site, so we’d have to target a reduced vocabulary (whatever this means in practice). From a gut feeling, I’d prefer to sound not “too clever” and … narcissistic.”

The sentence that starts “So by default…” is not grammatically correct (I won’t go into why). I sure hope the site does not end up full of copy that is not grammatically correct. I’ll assume the “right…write…write” sing-song was intentional (and not just overlooked) but it’s still hokey, and trying to say “right” and “write” is too confusing. We could also be more correct and refer to the panel instead of “tab,” as the tab is just a navigation feature. Finally, is it really relevant at this stage to talk to a new user about the semantics of the backoffice before they’ve even seen it? Of course not! Why not reduce that jumble to something more direct.

Better:

Start writing. By Default, Textpattern takes you directly to the panel where you write and publish. Easy as that.

Collaborate. Sites published with Textpattern can employ unlimited contributors. Assign roles to your team members and work together easily.

Problems:

“Sites published with Textpattern” can be said with two words, and “employing” users is not the best word, but rather a synonym of something more accurate. “Team members” is too specific and assuming of how Txp will be used by someone. No mention of access restrictions.

Better:

Collaborate. Textpattern sites enable an unlimited number of back-office users. Administrators can assign user accounts by role and area of access so users focus only on what they need to do without conflicts.

I could go on, but maybe the point to be made here is that when we do come to a point where we have the finished first draft, someone with an eye for better editing can proof it? Maybe? Without endless debating from the people who didn’t get it write the first time they wrote it? I’m not claiming I’m that editor, but I’m certainly not going to accept word bloat, fragmented concepts and bad grammar. Any good copy writer and/or editor would at least tell you that much.

Ed.: In the areas above where it’s mentioned “Better”, that’s not to say it can’t be better still, it just means it’s better than what existed.

Last edited by Destry (2008-09-19 11:29:19)

Bloke · 2008-09-19 11:33:40

Sorry, Just write was my fault. I didn’t come up with it, but tentaively put its use forward. Agree with losing the Englishisms to as great an extent as possible.

The five ‘promo space’ items listed were the ones that nemoorange used on the mockup, which zero merely copied I think. They have merit, just need de-anglicising a tad. I could have a go if nobody objected.

I also agree the copy should be tighter; more like Destry’s version. I like colour. I like ornate words. But I talk too much. I write flowery copy full of emotive fluff and it’s largely unnecessary and causes people much angst having to wade through it to find the good bits (if any!). Learning that is the hardest thing I’ve had to do in terms of writing style now I’m at the stage of drafting my screenplay from the vast swathes of description, moody looks and scene-setting to one sentence or just a couple of words that do the same job. Natural and to-the-point dialogue and description is a skill far more difficult than I ever gave credit! I have a long way to go…

Last edited by Bloke (2008-09-19 11:35:54)

zero · 2008-09-19 13:57:27

Sorry, I never claim to have done things if I haven’t done them, and by zero was misleading so I’ve changed it. I was responding to the squaredeye request. He wanted to know what content elements to work on, so that’s why I gave my version. As he said, wording may change so I didn’t make changes there, but now you’ve given me your views, perhaps I will make some changes later. You could, of course, just put your version up there and label it as such.

Hopefully we have learned from this thread, if not before, that there can be two or more versions of a sentence and each can be equally right, and ‘better’ is often subjective. So I try to leave your, or stef’s or dave’s or other’s contributions alone except where they ask for editing or if there’s something I feel needs changing when I will usually say so. I also try not to delete blocks of text unless they are definitely no longer relevant because we are meant to work together on a wiki, so I respect everyone’s efforts. That’s why I did not want you to start altering the features list, if you were going to do it radically, but made a space so you can write your own. We may be equally right (or wrong) about the features list so altering it would probably only cause lots of debate and not get us very far. Similarly with my arrangement of the home page content – you may disagree with the content elements as well as the wording, but that doesn’t mean to say one of us is right and the other is wrong. As I say you and anyone else can simply put your version up there.

And it is not that I am doing it for credits. I couldn’t care less if I am never mentioned. If something I have contributed makes it onto the final page, I will feel I have done something useful and that means more to me than a mention or a link. If it did I’d follow your way and I’d sign all my comments with a link to my home page. I am only doing this with the intention of helping Textpattern, not for some ego trip or for my CV.

‘Tab’ is used almost exclusively in the forum posts I have read to mean the content of the page accessed by clicking the tab. You are the only person I know who uses the word ‘panel’. As for your other arguments about wording, I’ll think about them, as will Dave and others too probably, so thanks for the suggestions.

Destry · 2008-09-19 14:54:15

Bloke wrote:

I have a long way to go.

Dude (an Americanism..er…Californianism), we all have a road to take. The course is different for each of us. :)
Believe it or not, I enjoy fiction writing (find it very therapeutic), and have written a couple of video scripts as well. It’s a completely different style in each case. (Hell, in the case of fiction, there’s styles within styles.).

Clean, concise writing is not easy, no more so than finding the write words in an elevator pitch. :) I started out in science and have written my share of scientific papers (all academic) and there’s nothing more dry than scientific writing. I have masters in technical communication, have put in the hours of writing theory and studied stylist variations for different mediums. I’m not bragging, I’m just saying, getting to understand clean writing is continuous work, not something you just pull out of the air.

zero wrote:

Sorry, I never claim to have done things if I haven’t done them, and by zero was misleading so I’ve changed it.

I am the one to apologize here. I totally misunderstood, and it was not my aim to suggest you were looking to improve your CV. :) (Though there’s no harm in doing that, and you certainly should, as anybody else should who has contributed as much as yourself.) Still, I personally don’t want to have my own version either. Having multiple versions doesn’t get us anywhere, that’s not productive. What we need is one place, get things to a draft stage, designate one person as “words tightener” and call it good.

As for “better” being subjective. That’s true to an extent, certainly, and there’s multiple ways of saying things (as I have shown many times in this thread), but when the text is clearly not orthographically correct, then it’s simply wrong, bad writing, and there’s no subjectivity involved. Any university course on Tech Writing 101 will teach you that web copy is as important as a published manual. There’s no excuse, NONE, for grammatically incorrect writing in a site aiming to look even semi-professional.

@All: The work you’ve done up to now with layout and what’s going on the home page is fine and great. I don’t care about the topics you’ve picked, I simply care about the quality of how your saying it. That’s all.

ruud · 2008-09-19 16:51:07

Panel vs Tab => I’d definitely go for Tab.

If you like free, open source software and a site done right with maximum efficiency, Textpattern is for you.

Unlike Destry, I don’t think ‘free’, ‘open source’ and ‘software’ are redundant, but since the majority of CMS software available seems to be free/open source and obviously software, is it worth mentioning this so prominently?

Start writing, skip the kerfuffle

As a not native English reader, I can get an idea of what kerfuffle means, but I’d have to grab a dictionary to make sure. And it doesn’t even rhyme ;)

Administrators can assign user accounts by role and area of access

Since TXP is limited to 6 pre-defined roles which cannot be redefined without editing a file, that statement promises more than we can deliver.

Textpattern CMS

Textpattern CMS support forum

#229 2008-09-17 07:49:54

Re: TxP.com home page

#230 2008-09-17 17:18:43

Re: TxP.com home page

#231 2008-09-17 17:55:05

Re: TxP.com home page

#232 2008-09-18 07:45:10

Re: TxP.com home page

#233 2008-09-18 14:37:32

Re: TxP.com home page

#234 2008-09-18 15:41:10

Re: TxP.com home page

#235 2008-09-18 16:43:25

Re: TxP.com home page

#236 2008-09-19 11:01:17

Re: TxP.com home page

#237 2008-09-19 11:33:40

Re: TxP.com home page

#238 2008-09-19 13:57:27

Re: TxP.com home page

#239 2008-09-19 14:54:15

Re: TxP.com home page

#240 2008-09-19 16:51:07

Re: TxP.com home page

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