TxP.com home page

Destry · 2008-09-01 16:21:09

Els wrote:

Can someone please change that to Michelangelo?

LOL! – Ouch! Hey I modernized, what can I say.

Last edited by Destry (2008-09-01 16:21:47)

zero · 2008-09-01 16:36:12

Destry, re tabs need changing – I was only meaning if ‘tabs’ were to be used in the integrated nav, then they should match admin tabs. At present I am so used to the admin tabs that I think they are fine. However, when I was making the .png to show how they could be used for integrated nav, I realised they do not show emphatically enough that all the lower tabs relate only to the one open upper tab, and that all lower tabs will change when an upper tab is changed. At the moment it could be confusing, so I see a need for more contrast, eg upper tabs all black, ‘live’ upper tab white, lower tabs all white, ‘live ‘one with txp yellow underline. In fact lower tabs don’t have to be tabs and are probably better to be a horizontal list with a dot in between, which would show more clearly they belong to the white tab above. (obviously that is just an example and colours may change)

But you’re right about images all need to be current. This is one reason against using them, as external sites will change as well. Regarding the ‘promotional space’, perhaps one image showing Michelangelo in Carver pose using part of the Carver logo, a Hemingway notepad and the txp write page, all beautifully done would be a good opening image? Don’t run any flash movies automatically but give the option with the buttons?

Re teasers, maniqui, intermediate pages should be used only if necessary, imho, that’s why Destry made the ‘factoids’ if I am correct. A factoid point directly to plugin forum, how do I forum etc because the short explanation is sufficient. Teasers point to existing pages that are necessary such as Features or Resources.

zero · 2008-09-01 19:43:34

I’m having second thoughts about your copy you’ve put on the wireframe, Destry. It is mostly blurb. Now I like the main one about Michelangelo, but think that is probably enough blurb and there should be some facts instead. For example: clean URLs, jQuery, copy and paste plugins, install in 2 minutes, thoroughly tested before release, standards compliance, ease of Textile, minimal efficient interface, developers active on forum etc. I think mentioning these sells txp without it being marketing blurb that is more blatantly selling.

I’m also having second thoughts about my suggestion for an image. Words leaves it up to the imagination, whereas an image fixes it. But a real artist would know much better than me about what would work and what wouldn’t, so I hope there’s one reading who’d like to help…

And Maniqui, what would you put on a page about plugins or the forum? Perhaps there is a good reason to have an intermediate page like that which I’m missing?

maniqui · 2008-09-01 20:25:55

zero wrote:

clean URLs, jQuery, copy and paste plugins, install in 2 minutes, thoroughly tested before release, standards compliance, ease of Textile, minimal efficient interface, developers active on forum etc. I think mentioning these sells txp without it being marketing blurb that is more blatantly selling.

You opened my eyes. This definitely should also be featured somewhere on home page.
But then again, everything can’t be included on the home page and that is why sites are organized in sections (“Features”, in this case).
About the marketing blurb, I really liked the “tool” metaphor. It put the emphasis on how artisans use common, simple tools, to make nice and/or useful things.
I agree that putting too much marketing blurb on the home page could be read as too much “blahblahblah”.
Maybe some of the “marketing speech” could be “dispersed” across the whole TXP site, as little introductory paragraphs for each section, or as “clever quotes” on the footer.
As the “code is pottery” was on the bottom of the forum.

And Maniqui, what would you put on a page about plugins or the forum? Perhaps there is a good reason to have an intermediate page like that which I’m missing?

I was thinking on something like this: Community section on Slicehost.
For example, the “Download” link should not download the gzipped file, but take you to the download page where minimal requirements and brief installation instructions listed (as currently does on txp.com).
Another example the “Forum” link on top nav, I think it should take the user directly to this forum, because it is expected.
But, on homepage, if there is a teaser/factoid/whatever talking about the community (the forum, the devs, etc), I would link it to an inner page where it could be further explained (with links to forum, and faqs related to forum, and where to find the #irc channel, and how nice we are :)).

Destry · 2008-09-02 07:28:51

zero wrote:

I’m having second thoughts about your copy you’ve put on the wireframe, Destry. It is mostly blurb. Now I like the main one about Michelangelo, but think that is probably enough blurb and there should be some facts instead.

Putting the intro aside, that leaves 3 text blocks on the content wireframe: features, showcase, and support. Of those three, only features is a blurb of any kind and it could (and I agree it should) easily be rewritten with some tech points like you’ve mentioned with a link to follow for more features in detail.

The other two are not about Txp itself but rather what the community has done and where to get help. If there’s any facts to give, they’re given plain and simple there already. There’s no marketing (puts tongue in cheek), it’s just short, friendly text that introduces peripheral topics.

Showcase… “Txp is not just a blog engine, and we have a showcase by category to prove it. Links”
Support… “ “Txp just works, but if you want to push limits, here’s where to go. Links”

The communication there is true and direct.

Just edit the features block and all is still fine. We could use the existing features copy as the intro on the actual features page; spreading the cleverness around the site (as maniqui suggested) so it’s not so concentrated, as it were.

mainqui wrote:

For example, the “Download” link should not download the gzipped file, but take you to the download page where minimal requirements and brief installation instructions listed (as currently does on txp.com).

This is still the intention as far as I’m aware, but I would argue that the only reason it’s worth doing is because the page would also provide the download instructions too. If it was nothing but to click the download link, then a link directly to the gzip would be more direct and better.

mainqui wrote:

But, on homepage, if there is a teaser/factoid/whatever talking about the community (the forum, the devs, etc), I would link it to an inner page where it could be further explained (with links to forum, and faqs related to forum, and where to find the #irc channel, and how nice we are :)).

A link label that reads “forum” should ALWAYS go directly to the forum. Anything else is simply bad architecture and would likely frustrate the web user. Same holds true for “documentation”, “FAQs”, “Plugins” (.org), and so forth.

However, I know what you mean about a summary listing page, and that’s what my vision of the “Resources” link is in the main navigation. It does NOT go to the current Txp Resources site because, as argued with some agreement in that other thread, the current .org site is inappropriately named for the times and needs relabeled to reflect just plugins (e.g., Txp Plugins). If done, then you could truly have a “resources” page in the .com site which served as an official listing of all the resources for a user’s knowledge. Each item in the list might include title, description and link to the site. Even a small image/thumbnailcould be added to give some visual life to the page, though I have no thoughts what these would be.

What we don’t need at this point is too many steps backwards on what little has been done so far, but rather more focus on what yet needs put in place. wet’s wiki is still full of holes for content pages. Start them. Link from the site map. If the text is wrong in your content, no worries, someone will comment until it’s worked out. Likewise, Matthieu will be rolling a third and yet better wireframe combining what we’ve learned to date. I would like to think the next wireframe from Matthieu would be close to final on the home page. After that it’s looking at the presentation layer and the specs on that are pretty well set (not much different that what exists, in fact).

Last edited by Destry (2008-09-02 10:46:02)

zero · 2008-09-02 08:01:59

When I visit a site and start to read blurb I immediately look for something more factual to get my teeth into. Otherwise I leave. So after reading some of the Michelangelo block, I look around and the words I read are…. “Textpattern provides what any good web publishing tool should…”, or “Textpattern is not just a blog engine. Sure you’ll find many…” or “A great thing about Textpattern is it just works, as it’s supposed to…”. This is blurb imho because it says what everyone else is saying. There needs to be some facts that set Textpattern apart. Instead of Features, I would do something like:

Day to day use

Upgrades are a rare event because thorough testing kills bugs. But features are added daily via plugins – simply choose a function, then copy and paste it into Textpattern in moments! For more examples of Textpattern simplicity and efficiency read the feature list.

Showcase

View by category or see them all (and the bulleted list)

Support

Textpattern core developers and plugin developers actively help on the friendly community forum. Resources exist to help you in a variety of ways. (and the bulleted list)

Your intro sentences are well written but still seem like blurb to me, so perhaps better to restrict more general statements to the last sentence such as I’ve done in day to day use above?

Destry · 2008-09-02 08:45:55

These are good. Nice job. They’ve a balance to them; not too dry or…wet. Heh.
Fewer words are generally a good thing too, though not to the point of being vague. I don’t think it’s vague here.

~~I would advocate using these~~. The reduced text would call for a slightly different grid than the one I slapped down, but we’ll see what Matthieu comes up with.

Perhaps the original versions serve as intro copy on second-level pages, then we only need to add the body copy.

EDIT: Coming back to this after a closer read; I actually think these are a bit rough and disconjunct. I wouldn’t advocate using these as written.

My feelings stand at this post. That’s not to say it’s perfect, but I’m not convinced of your blurb concerns outside of the Features block which agreeably could use something a bit more concrete in technical details.

Last edited by Destry (2008-09-02 11:18:02)

zero · 2008-09-02 19:11:25

They were written off the top of my head as examples. I still think Showcase and Support need to be a bit more specific. I really think devs helping on the forum needs mentioning because it is quite rare. I’ve also de-emphasised blogs in the Showcase. This is my best attempt, so please feel free to tweak it up where you feel fit.

Day to day use

Upgrades are a rare event because our thorough testing prevents most security holes and bugs. Features are added daily via plugins, however. Simply choose a function, then copy and paste it into Textpattern in moments! For more examples of Textpattern simplicity and efficiency see the feature list.

Showcase

Textpattern is scalable and multi-faceted enough to empower a variety of websites. Search our showcase by category or see them all. (add Blog and dual-language to bulleted list)

Support

Designers, techies and even our core developers inhabit the friendly community forum, ensuring help is available for your particular needs or background. Further resources include: (bulleted list) (drop the commas at end of lines)

This Jakob Nielsen article is well worth a read. He’s the leading usability expert in the world. I read it when it first came out and now I’ve skimmed through it again, I realise there’s probably more we can do to improve the copy. But that’s enough for this post, I need to do some more re-reading…

Edit: see this also It’s quite frightening!

Last edited by zero (2008-09-02 20:11:00)

Destry · 2008-09-03 09:25:04

Better this round, but I’ve fiddled with the ideas a bit.

I should first explain there’s no logical connection between “Day to day use” and the information you put under it. Day-to-day (the proper orthography) has nothing to do with heavy testing and lack of need for upgrades, which is the point you seem to be after in the lead sentence. To me, as a CMS user, the day-to-day is preparing/publishing web content and the subtasks associated with that process, like writing, editing, adding images…boom!. So, if you want to say day-to-day then the details that follow need to focus more on real day-to-day operations. I think the header should go back to “Features,” which is a single word everybody clearly understands. After that there’s three ways to go here, at least: 1) craft a short, balanced mix of publishing features (day-to-day level) and technical features (security, plugins, whatever), 2) mention features as existing to need/role, with user type categories to which features are associated (and viewed), and 3) create another text block (like the factoid for Extendable) and focus on the plugin stuff there. I’ve gone with #2 in my example below.

P.S. I’m well aware of Nielsen. He should listen to these guys.

We should probably return this content development to wet’s wiki. I also think we really need to move to other pages too and not get bogged down on just the home page. Once other content is developed it might be necessary to return and tweak things, so it’s better to spread the plaster before gold-leafing it.

——————— Note links below are dummies!

Features

When all is said and done, Textpattern is about publishing content, and it has some great features to help users do that. Before settling-in, however, you might choose to makeover the design or extend functionality, and features make that easy too. No matter what role one has, features exist with those tasks in mind.

Features for:

Showcase

Textpattern’s scalable nature and granular management of content makes it a powerful platform on which to build any type of website. Our showcase provides several examples. Explore by category or start from the beginning. (List¹)

¹Note: Someone should probably actually find 2 or 3 examples now of each category type so we know in fact which categories will be feasible to mention.

Support

Support comes in a variety of flavors. No doubt friendly support in the forum direct from Textpattern developers and users like you will satisfy. If you’re a self-help type, the docs wiki, FAQ, or this book might suit your tastes. It doesn’t stop there, a variety of other resources exist from which you may find that one, elusive fact leading to success.

Last edited by Destry (2008-09-03 10:51:46)

zero · 2008-09-03 12:28:07

Aaah! I thought you understood but I see you’re missing my point, Destry. I’ll try and explain again more clearly.

The opening Michelangelo section is selling txp, and imho it does it well. There are some facts but some of it is more general and obviously designed to make txp sound good. Therefore it is blurbish (for the want of a better word:) There is only so much blurb a person can take before they start to smell a rat. They start thinking (I start thinking, don’t you too?) – What are they hiding? Why do they need to sell this to me? Is this product any good? If so, why don’t I see the facts that I want to know?

So after reading the intro block, I now want some facts. The next obvious place to look (after the image/slideshow) is Features. Now look at your latest offering – not a single feature! There are links but even those don’t give me a clue of what features there might be. Destry, the whole Features section you just wrote is blurb!. You’ve got to understand that! People don’t need to be told txp is about publishing content. They wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t. They don’t need to be told it has great features for various situations – they expect it will have and they want to know what they are. They probably are or are involved with developers, designers, authors and editors so listing 4 pages (as it seems) is going to make the alarm bells ring – they are going to think “how many pages do I have to read before I find what I am looking for?”

So what I am saying is provide a real factual example, then link to a page full of examples. There’s no need to sell txp at this point, you’ve already done that. The examples and the pages they link to will sell themselves just by being what they are.

So rename Day to day use to Features and give one or two examples, then the link. I’ve made my suggestion and kept it short but if you can think of better examples then go for it. But no generalisations please!

Support: You don’t know who is reading so they may feel insulted that you presume to know them by saying “No doubt friendly support in the forum direct from Textpattern developers and users like you will satisfy”. Also a ‘variety of flavours’ is true but is also clear from the links provided, therefore doesn’t need to be said. Perhaps just a bulleted list like this:

Developers actively help (link to specific forum)
Friendly community forums
FAQ
Docs wiki
plus many other resources to help you find that one, elusive fact leading to success

(I removed the book because they can’t actually use it immediately, so better in the resources page, methinks)

Showcase is more difficult because an example can’t be provided in that space (unless txp.com can itself be used as an example). But the list of links is relevant and shows what might be expected. Perhaps no introductory sentence is needed?

Actually, there is no showcase. There are 6 featured sites which don’t fit easily into categories. The best showcase with categories is at WeloveTXP.com. I don’t think anyone will want to make a showcase at this late stage so that section needs a complete rethink. For now, I just suggest a link to the Featured sites and one to Welovetxp with a sentence accompanying each. There is a list of suitable sites here so I’ll see if I can figure something out and put something on wet’s wiki.

Destry · 2008-09-03 13:54:18

zero,

I understood your point. I know what I wrote, I did so with purpose, and I don’t think it’s as detrimental as you would have it be. It’s a lead-in (not all the facts) and there’s nothing wrong with putting some life into the words. Nobody will get lost, turned off, or try to sue wet. They might even thank us for getting a new site up—guaranteed to be better that what exists—before the year 2050 (which is what it will be at this rate).

In any case, I believe this has come to a head. Too bad there’s no mechanism for making decisions and moving on. I’ve given some penmanship to the home page cause and it can be taken in part, whole, or left alone. I care not either way. Certainly anyone else is welcome to put their ideas on the chopping block to beat the 2050 mark. I’ll return to previous obligations and await Matthieu’s next iteration before saying more.

zero · 2008-09-03 14:19:41

Fair enough. We have a fundamental disagreement over what kind of thing should be stated in those 3 boxes, especially Features. I hope others are still reading this and will have their say. Hopefully we are not the only ones left reading this thread!

Textpattern CMS

Textpattern CMS support forum

#97 2008-09-01 16:21:09

Re: TxP.com home page

#98 2008-09-01 16:36:12

Re: TxP.com home page

#99 2008-09-01 19:43:34

Re: TxP.com home page

#100 2008-09-01 20:25:55

Re: TxP.com home page

#101 2008-09-02 07:28:51

Re: TxP.com home page

#102 2008-09-02 08:01:59

Re: TxP.com home page

#103 2008-09-02 08:45:55

Re: TxP.com home page

#104 2008-09-02 19:11:25

Re: TxP.com home page

#105 2008-09-03 09:25:04

Re: TxP.com home page

#106 2008-09-03 12:28:07

Re: TxP.com home page

#107 2008-09-03 13:54:18

Re: TxP.com home page

#108 2008-09-03 14:19:41

Re: TxP.com home page

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