TxP.com home page

maniqui · 2008-09-01 15:26:53

I’ll “bulletize” my loose ideas:

reading this copy, and this one too, and taking a look at current TXP homepage is a must-to for those willing to help (or even, criticize).
Jon Hicks’s site and many other beautiful TxP-based sites are probably a strong sell point, but then, they could be listed somewhere else (even on the homepage), less “important”.
reinforce the idea of TXP being blank canvas
Also, the idea of “code is pottery” (easily “chaineable” with the idea of “artisans”).
I loved the “Michelangelo… Hemingway… webdesigners… artisans” metaphor.
- Michelangelo equals the web designer with HTML/CSS/graphical skills but not too much JS/PHP/general-programming skills
- Hemingway may match the bloggers/writers or any other people who publish content to the web, and also may have some geek skills (html/css/js/php).
- I would add someone else (a scientist: Leonardo Da Vinci? Einstein? Newton?), so developers (programmers, plug-in devs) can feel identified too to someone clever which used common tools to develop new devices and to create beautiful science (“code is pottery”, again).
- so, the elevator pitch should aim web-designers/programmers/writters and, hopefully, our potential clients (to whom we offer the benefits of TXP).
also liked the idea of factoids and teasers. The idea of explaining features (like plug-ins, or the support forum, or TXP tags) on a deeper place (second level) on TXP site.
listen to the community, or you haven’t read latest news on jQuery official blog?
- jQuery site redesign: the community speaks
- Death to Javascript Rock Stars (death to TXP rock stars?)
as a reference, I love the way Slicehost (a hosting company) organized its site (not just the homepage but the whole site). It has the content it must have.

re: the wireframe
I think the suggested wireframe goes a little against one statement on design principles on wet’s notes:

Avoid Web 2.0 clichés like gradients or overly huge font sizes

The suggested wireframe (for homepage) seems to lead to a almost image-based design.
It doesn’t seem to have room for the copy
Yes, the copy (the “long” explanations of features, etc) could (and should) go on the inner pages, mainly because a home-page doesn’t have too much SEO impact (can’t find the link).

Of course, one image is worth a thousands words, but then, the content is the king (yeah, images are content too, but I’m talking about text).

Look at current TXP.com. It’s almost all text-based. Yeah, some of the text there is totally outdated. But then, it worked (sure, along with the word of mouth made by both well-known and anonymous designers/developers, both amateurs and professionals, both newcomers and skilled).

So, IMHO, the wireframe needs some adjustment to balance images-based content and text-based content.

Everyone seems to be doing great work.
I insist on a public redesign (hidden from starving robots).
Is the dev.textpattern.com already set up? ;)

Last edited by maniqui (2008-09-01 16:14:45)

zero · 2008-09-01 15:43:53

Regarding your points, Destry:
1 I thought integrated nav menu was agreed because of the enthusiastic response and the fact that Robert added it to the design principles on the relaunch start page. If you still don’t have email, you may not be aware of some changes I created for discussion on the site map. Imho, the integrated nav should be accompanied by a local nav on every integrated site, for consistency and ease of navigation. If that can be agreed, the rest of each website could be quite different if necessary, eg forum will be different to weblog will be different to docs.

2, 3, 4 All sound good to me

6 Probably a good point

Features: it has been mentioned several times throughout the forums that plugins provide all the features most people require, which is why I made it prominent in the draft home page content. I don’t think ‘Features’ needs stressing at all because people will probably be looking for features anyway. However, plugins are overlooked as features so I would prefer to see your plugin text replace what you’ve written in the Features box, but still keep the Features heading.

Overall good jobs are being done and it’s getting nearer!

Destry · 2008-09-01 15:52:31

zero wrote:

I am suggesting that admin tabs need to change – the tabs here should match those in admin, so they have to be right

This is an important point, if not in the same way you mean (I’m not sure). I noticed after the fact that in the screenshots from the current .com site the images used in the slide animations show backoffice tab labels having lowercase text. Those are obviously old images and it would be sloppy to use old imagery in a new site design. Details like this should ideally be followed up with.

This is another point/plug for some Camtasia wizard to create a new series of Txp demos that could replace those rather choppy slide loops. Or at the very least for someone to make new slide loops using a current backoffice.

maniqui · 2008-09-01 15:59:51

Destry’s wireframe and post resumed, extended and explained all the looses ideas on my last post.

As zero, I agree that plug-ins should be emphasized some where on the home page.

Also, any content on the homepage should be further explained somewhere else on the inner pages.
Examples:

if there is a teaser about plug-ins, it should link to a inner page where TXP plugins are explained as a feature. Like an “elevators pitch” but on a inner page, so it could be larger than an elevators pitch. Then, link from there to any plug-in related page (Textpattern Resources, the Plugin category on forum, etc)
if there is a teaser about the community and the forum, we shouldn’t link directly to the forum, but to a inner page where there is a nice, short, concise description about the forum, the community, the #textpattern channel, the fun, etc, etc.
and so on.

Of course, links like “Forum” on top navigation should probably link directly to the forum. Or not.

*Gocom wrote: *

Will the page be as good with out flash/Javascript?

I’m all for a progressive enhancement and graceful degradation approach from the start (an Keith’s hijax approach).
It will be very promotional for TXP. There is people (with and without OCD) who checks if a CMS page validates properly, if the page works with JS disabled, etc. Yeah, geeks like you and me.

els · 2008-09-01 16:10:32

Michaelangelo had hammer and chisel.

Can someone please change that to Michelangelo?

Destry · 2008-09-01 16:19:15

zero wrote:

I thought integrated nav menu was agreed because of the enthusiastic response and the fact that Robert added it to the design principles on the relaunch start page.

Thanks. I had not noticed that before. That’s good news to me and at least a few others.

maniqui wrote:

Of course, links like “Forum” on top navigation should probably link directly to the forum.

Yes, on this I would certainly agree. It’s what makes the integrated styling effective (again, again, and the .org site theoretically behaving the same way), as well as being the principle means by which a user moves from one environment to another.

With regard to the plugins teaser, it would be easy enough to add a fourth horizontal block for “Plugins” or “Extension” (the latter used in the main nav wireframe to suggest the .org site) underneath the elevator pitch. I don’t think it would be necessary to replace the current Features lead-in entirely, as it is already much reduced from what exists now.

Destry · 2008-09-01 16:21:09

Els wrote:

Can someone please change that to Michelangelo?

LOL! – Ouch! Hey I modernized, what can I say.

Last edited by Destry (2008-09-01 16:21:47)

zero · 2008-09-01 16:36:12

Destry, re tabs need changing – I was only meaning if ‘tabs’ were to be used in the integrated nav, then they should match admin tabs. At present I am so used to the admin tabs that I think they are fine. However, when I was making the .png to show how they could be used for integrated nav, I realised they do not show emphatically enough that all the lower tabs relate only to the one open upper tab, and that all lower tabs will change when an upper tab is changed. At the moment it could be confusing, so I see a need for more contrast, eg upper tabs all black, ‘live’ upper tab white, lower tabs all white, ‘live ‘one with txp yellow underline. In fact lower tabs don’t have to be tabs and are probably better to be a horizontal list with a dot in between, which would show more clearly they belong to the white tab above. (obviously that is just an example and colours may change)

But you’re right about images all need to be current. This is one reason against using them, as external sites will change as well. Regarding the ‘promotional space’, perhaps one image showing Michelangelo in Carver pose using part of the Carver logo, a Hemingway notepad and the txp write page, all beautifully done would be a good opening image? Don’t run any flash movies automatically but give the option with the buttons?

Re teasers, maniqui, intermediate pages should be used only if necessary, imho, that’s why Destry made the ‘factoids’ if I am correct. A factoid point directly to plugin forum, how do I forum etc because the short explanation is sufficient. Teasers point to existing pages that are necessary such as Features or Resources.

zero · 2008-09-01 19:43:34

I’m having second thoughts about your copy you’ve put on the wireframe, Destry. It is mostly blurb. Now I like the main one about Michelangelo, but think that is probably enough blurb and there should be some facts instead. For example: clean URLs, jQuery, copy and paste plugins, install in 2 minutes, thoroughly tested before release, standards compliance, ease of Textile, minimal efficient interface, developers active on forum etc. I think mentioning these sells txp without it being marketing blurb that is more blatantly selling.

I’m also having second thoughts about my suggestion for an image. Words leaves it up to the imagination, whereas an image fixes it. But a real artist would know much better than me about what would work and what wouldn’t, so I hope there’s one reading who’d like to help…

And Maniqui, what would you put on a page about plugins or the forum? Perhaps there is a good reason to have an intermediate page like that which I’m missing?

maniqui · 2008-09-01 20:25:55

zero wrote:

clean URLs, jQuery, copy and paste plugins, install in 2 minutes, thoroughly tested before release, standards compliance, ease of Textile, minimal efficient interface, developers active on forum etc. I think mentioning these sells txp without it being marketing blurb that is more blatantly selling.

You opened my eyes. This definitely should also be featured somewhere on home page.
But then again, everything can’t be included on the home page and that is why sites are organized in sections (“Features”, in this case).
About the marketing blurb, I really liked the “tool” metaphor. It put the emphasis on how artisans use common, simple tools, to make nice and/or useful things.
I agree that putting too much marketing blurb on the home page could be read as too much “blahblahblah”.
Maybe some of the “marketing speech” could be “dispersed” across the whole TXP site, as little introductory paragraphs for each section, or as “clever quotes” on the footer.
As the “code is pottery” was on the bottom of the forum.

And Maniqui, what would you put on a page about plugins or the forum? Perhaps there is a good reason to have an intermediate page like that which I’m missing?

I was thinking on something like this: Community section on Slicehost.
For example, the “Download” link should not download the gzipped file, but take you to the download page where minimal requirements and brief installation instructions listed (as currently does on txp.com).
Another example the “Forum” link on top nav, I think it should take the user directly to this forum, because it is expected.
But, on homepage, if there is a teaser/factoid/whatever talking about the community (the forum, the devs, etc), I would link it to an inner page where it could be further explained (with links to forum, and faqs related to forum, and where to find the #irc channel, and how nice we are :)).

Destry · 2008-09-02 07:28:51

zero wrote:

I’m having second thoughts about your copy you’ve put on the wireframe, Destry. It is mostly blurb. Now I like the main one about Michelangelo, but think that is probably enough blurb and there should be some facts instead.

Putting the intro aside, that leaves 3 text blocks on the content wireframe: features, showcase, and support. Of those three, only features is a blurb of any kind and it could (and I agree it should) easily be rewritten with some tech points like you’ve mentioned with a link to follow for more features in detail.

The other two are not about Txp itself but rather what the community has done and where to get help. If there’s any facts to give, they’re given plain and simple there already. There’s no marketing (puts tongue in cheek), it’s just short, friendly text that introduces peripheral topics.

Showcase… “Txp is not just a blog engine, and we have a showcase by category to prove it. Links”
Support… “ “Txp just works, but if you want to push limits, here’s where to go. Links”

The communication there is true and direct.

Just edit the features block and all is still fine. We could use the existing features copy as the intro on the actual features page; spreading the cleverness around the site (as maniqui suggested) so it’s not so concentrated, as it were.

mainqui wrote:

For example, the “Download” link should not download the gzipped file, but take you to the download page where minimal requirements and brief installation instructions listed (as currently does on txp.com).

This is still the intention as far as I’m aware, but I would argue that the only reason it’s worth doing is because the page would also provide the download instructions too. If it was nothing but to click the download link, then a link directly to the gzip would be more direct and better.

mainqui wrote:

But, on homepage, if there is a teaser/factoid/whatever talking about the community (the forum, the devs, etc), I would link it to an inner page where it could be further explained (with links to forum, and faqs related to forum, and where to find the #irc channel, and how nice we are :)).

A link label that reads “forum” should ALWAYS go directly to the forum. Anything else is simply bad architecture and would likely frustrate the web user. Same holds true for “documentation”, “FAQs”, “Plugins” (.org), and so forth.

However, I know what you mean about a summary listing page, and that’s what my vision of the “Resources” link is in the main navigation. It does NOT go to the current Txp Resources site because, as argued with some agreement in that other thread, the current .org site is inappropriately named for the times and needs relabeled to reflect just plugins (e.g., Txp Plugins). If done, then you could truly have a “resources” page in the .com site which served as an official listing of all the resources for a user’s knowledge. Each item in the list might include title, description and link to the site. Even a small image/thumbnailcould be added to give some visual life to the page, though I have no thoughts what these would be.

What we don’t need at this point is too many steps backwards on what little has been done so far, but rather more focus on what yet needs put in place. wet’s wiki is still full of holes for content pages. Start them. Link from the site map. If the text is wrong in your content, no worries, someone will comment until it’s worked out. Likewise, Matthieu will be rolling a third and yet better wireframe combining what we’ve learned to date. I would like to think the next wireframe from Matthieu would be close to final on the home page. After that it’s looking at the presentation layer and the specs on that are pretty well set (not much different that what exists, in fact).

Last edited by Destry (2008-09-02 10:46:02)

zero · 2008-09-02 08:01:59

When I visit a site and start to read blurb I immediately look for something more factual to get my teeth into. Otherwise I leave. So after reading some of the Michelangelo block, I look around and the words I read are…. “Textpattern provides what any good web publishing tool should…”, or “Textpattern is not just a blog engine. Sure you’ll find many…” or “A great thing about Textpattern is it just works, as it’s supposed to…”. This is blurb imho because it says what everyone else is saying. There needs to be some facts that set Textpattern apart. Instead of Features, I would do something like:

Day to day use

Upgrades are a rare event because thorough testing kills bugs. But features are added daily via plugins – simply choose a function, then copy and paste it into Textpattern in moments! For more examples of Textpattern simplicity and efficiency read the feature list.

Showcase

View by category or see them all (and the bulleted list)

Support

Textpattern core developers and plugin developers actively help on the friendly community forum. Resources exist to help you in a variety of ways. (and the bulleted list)

Your intro sentences are well written but still seem like blurb to me, so perhaps better to restrict more general statements to the last sentence such as I’ve done in day to day use above?

Destry · 2008-09-02 08:45:55

These are good. Nice job. They’ve a balance to them; not too dry or…wet. Heh.
Fewer words are generally a good thing too, though not to the point of being vague. I don’t think it’s vague here.

~~I would advocate using these~~. The reduced text would call for a slightly different grid than the one I slapped down, but we’ll see what Matthieu comes up with.

Perhaps the original versions serve as intro copy on second-level pages, then we only need to add the body copy.

EDIT: Coming back to this after a closer read; I actually think these are a bit rough and disconjunct. I wouldn’t advocate using these as written.

My feelings stand at this post. That’s not to say it’s perfect, but I’m not convinced of your blurb concerns outside of the Features block which agreeably could use something a bit more concrete in technical details.

Last edited by Destry (2008-09-02 11:18:02)

zero · 2008-09-02 19:11:25

They were written off the top of my head as examples. I still think Showcase and Support need to be a bit more specific. I really think devs helping on the forum needs mentioning because it is quite rare. I’ve also de-emphasised blogs in the Showcase. This is my best attempt, so please feel free to tweak it up where you feel fit.

Day to day use

Upgrades are a rare event because our thorough testing prevents most security holes and bugs. Features are added daily via plugins, however. Simply choose a function, then copy and paste it into Textpattern in moments! For more examples of Textpattern simplicity and efficiency see the feature list.

Showcase

Textpattern is scalable and multi-faceted enough to empower a variety of websites. Search our showcase by category or see them all. (add Blog and dual-language to bulleted list)

Support

Designers, techies and even our core developers inhabit the friendly community forum, ensuring help is available for your particular needs or background. Further resources include: (bulleted list) (drop the commas at end of lines)

This Jakob Nielsen article is well worth a read. He’s the leading usability expert in the world. I read it when it first came out and now I’ve skimmed through it again, I realise there’s probably more we can do to improve the copy. But that’s enough for this post, I need to do some more re-reading…

Edit: see this also It’s quite frightening!

Last edited by zero (2008-09-02 20:11:00)

Destry · 2008-09-03 09:25:04

Better this round, but I’ve fiddled with the ideas a bit.

I should first explain there’s no logical connection between “Day to day use” and the information you put under it. Day-to-day (the proper orthography) has nothing to do with heavy testing and lack of need for upgrades, which is the point you seem to be after in the lead sentence. To me, as a CMS user, the day-to-day is preparing/publishing web content and the subtasks associated with that process, like writing, editing, adding images…boom!. So, if you want to say day-to-day then the details that follow need to focus more on real day-to-day operations. I think the header should go back to “Features,” which is a single word everybody clearly understands. After that there’s three ways to go here, at least: 1) craft a short, balanced mix of publishing features (day-to-day level) and technical features (security, plugins, whatever), 2) mention features as existing to need/role, with user type categories to which features are associated (and viewed), and 3) create another text block (like the factoid for Extendable) and focus on the plugin stuff there. I’ve gone with #2 in my example below.

P.S. I’m well aware of Nielsen. He should listen to these guys.

We should probably return this content development to wet’s wiki. I also think we really need to move to other pages too and not get bogged down on just the home page. Once other content is developed it might be necessary to return and tweak things, so it’s better to spread the plaster before gold-leafing it.

——————— Note links below are dummies!

Features

When all is said and done, Textpattern is about publishing content, and it has some great features to help users do that. Before settling-in, however, you might choose to makeover the design or extend functionality, and features make that easy too. No matter what role one has, features exist with those tasks in mind.

Features for:

Showcase

Textpattern’s scalable nature and granular management of content makes it a powerful platform on which to build any type of website. Our showcase provides several examples. Explore by category or start from the beginning. (List¹)

¹Note: Someone should probably actually find 2 or 3 examples now of each category type so we know in fact which categories will be feasible to mention.

Support

Support comes in a variety of flavors. No doubt friendly support in the forum direct from Textpattern developers and users like you will satisfy. If you’re a self-help type, the docs wiki, FAQ, or this book might suit your tastes. It doesn’t stop there, a variety of other resources exist from which you may find that one, elusive fact leading to success.

Last edited by Destry (2008-09-03 10:51:46)

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#91 2008-09-01 15:26:53

Re: TxP.com home page

#92 2008-09-01 15:43:53

Re: TxP.com home page

#93 2008-09-01 15:52:31

Re: TxP.com home page

#94 2008-09-01 15:59:51

Re: TxP.com home page

#95 2008-09-01 16:10:32

Re: TxP.com home page

#96 2008-09-01 16:19:15

Re: TxP.com home page

#97 2008-09-01 16:21:09

Re: TxP.com home page

#98 2008-09-01 16:36:12

Re: TxP.com home page

#99 2008-09-01 19:43:34

Re: TxP.com home page

#100 2008-09-01 20:25:55

Re: TxP.com home page

#101 2008-09-02 07:28:51

Re: TxP.com home page

#102 2008-09-02 08:01:59

Re: TxP.com home page

#103 2008-09-02 08:45:55

Re: TxP.com home page

#104 2008-09-02 19:11:25

Re: TxP.com home page

#105 2008-09-03 09:25:04

Re: TxP.com home page

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