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#1 2008-08-21 22:40:58
- stopsatgreen
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- Registered: 2008-07-03
- Posts: 50
[contrib] Improving textpattern.org - request for information
This is a continuation of the topic I began previously.
I’m planning a wireframe of suggested improvements to textpattern.org. Where possible, I’ll build on existing features, rather than implement new ones; however, I think some changes may be inevitable. I have a few features in mind, but before I plan for them I need to know the feasibility of the following:
- An update to TXP 4.06. I don’t know if the current install has been modded at all, and how easy it would be to do this.
- A better rating system. I think tcm_rating would be good for this, but it may need a bit of work to be compatible with 4.06
- Files hosted on a central resource, and a script to count downloads
- To filter/flag elements which have been marked as ‘archived’
- A new custom field to show version compatibility
- For moderators to grant permission for new plugin developers to create pages, rather than anyone who creates an account
This is all based on a little pre-planning work this evening, so there may be more. I don’t think that any of those changes should involve a great deal of work, but it will be useful to know if they will.
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Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org - request for information
- The TXP version will be updated (not modded) only when an official new TXP version appears.
- No rating system!
- Central hosting is possible. This doesn’t require an extra script for download counting, just a plugin.
- Archived flagging is already done on TXP.org
- One custom field is still unused. Compatibility can be done on 2 levels: per plugin version and for the collection of archived (old) plugin versions.
- Granting permission is actually easier than the self-register thing we have now, although this does make it more difficult for people to add stuff (if they have to wait for a moderator)
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#3 2008-08-22 08:49:05
- stopsatgreen
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- Registered: 2008-07-03
- Posts: 50
Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org - request for information
- Sorry, I didn’t mean an update to TXP 4.06; I meant upgrading from 4.05 to 4.06. I phrased it badly.
- Why the hostility towards a rating system? It works well for Firefox Addons, Wordpress Plugins, Amazon, and countless other sites; it’s a convenient way to find out what other people think of a plugin. I was thinking of combining it with comments to turn them into reviews, and moving any discussion to the Forum.
- Can articles flagged as ‘Archived’ be filtered from the output? I’m not asking to do it by default, just wondering if it is possible.
- Re: permissions to upload plugins; I know it adds an extra step to the process, but I think it’s important that a moderator has a look at anything submitted by a new user before it goes live, just to make sure the fields are filled in correctly. After the first one has been approved, the developer would be free to add more. I’ve already noticed a few spam accounts set up in TXP.org.
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Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org - request for information
stopsatgreen wrote:
- Why the hostility towards a rating system? It works well for Firefox Addons, Wordpress Plugins, Amazon, and countless other sites; it’s a convenient way to find out what other people think of a plugin. I was thinking of combining it with comments to turn them into reviews, and moving any discussion to the Forum.
I think that in the previous thread ruud expressed his view about this and so did I. I would vote against it.
Yiannis
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#5 2008-08-22 09:44:58
- stopsatgreen
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- Registered: 2008-07-03
- Posts: 50
Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org - request for information
OK, let’s just put aside the issue of whether they are a good idea or not for now, because I’d like to try convince you as to why we should use them, and I need to find some notes I have at home; so I’ll post that later. In the meantime, is it feasible to update tcm_rating, or would it involve too much work?
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Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org - request for information
- they make the ‘popular’ plugins even more popular. Popular does not equal good.
- they are abused or simply used by people who understand only binary ratings (highest or lowest, without any values in between)
- when you develop a website, you don’t want a popular plugin, but rather a plugin that offers the functionality you need. Ratings (if accurate) would be interesting if there were 100+ plugins that all offer very similar functionality, but that’s not what we’re facing here.
- ratings are mostly meaningless without knowing the reasons for the rating given. In ratings systems that show the user comment/review along with the rating, I find it more useful to look at the middle ratings, because those are the ones that are typically given by people who point out the good and the bad, while the high and low ratings are often given by people who’ll comment “fantastic plugin, haven’t installed it yet, but sure will” or “it sucks, I had to read the documentation to understand it” (no, these aren’t quotes from the movie idiocracy).
- ratings systems require a critical mass of users so each plugin gets at least a minimum of X ratings before the scores become semi-usable. If a popular plugin like ZCR, which scores very well on TXP.org can achieve this score by just having 8 people rating it… that’s not reliable.
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Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org - request for information
Fellow Humans,
I agree with ruud and colak – rating systems are not a good idea.
Yes, they are on a lot of well known sites – but just like the ratings themselves – popular ≠ good.
There are a zillion other things related to TXP that need time and energy (I won’t waste mine linking them all).
I beg of you…let’s not have another discussion about the pro/cons of rating systems – there’s good work to be done.
Whoa. What happened? I blacked out.
- )
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#8 2008-08-22 14:40:41
- stopsatgreen
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- Registered: 2008-07-03
- Posts: 50
Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org - request for information
OK. I would still like to discuss ratings at a later date, but for now I’ll proceed on the assumption that they’re not wanted.
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Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org - request for information
I’d rather just have a simple, rating-less site too. The forum posts per plugin thread are a slightly better way to gauge a plugin’s popularity, unless it’s just a broken plugin. Reminded me I should update jmd_rate though…ugh!
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Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org - request for information
Ruud – can we address how the new plugins site will fit into TXP.com re-design? With the new site, it makes sense to me to have plugins.textpattern.com instead of txp.org. Same for docs.texpattern.com, forum.textpattern.com etc.
Thoughts?
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Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org - request for information
jstubbs wrote:
it makes sense to me to have plugins.textpattern.com instead of txp.org. Same for docs.texpattern.com, forum.textpattern.com etc.
I favor this idea too for the obvious benefit it provides with the usability of URLs. I would think, if this was an actual change and not just a virtual one, it might be in favor of Filip (at Joyent) to as he tends to be the one giving Txp servers any focus. It’s assumed, fewer servers to handle might lend to more .com attention when the times really count (presumingly).
However, I’m guessing — only a guess — that one thing against this is that by keeping different domains, it keeps volunteer hands away from hands-off places (a .com safeguard of sorts).
At any rate, the idea has a lot of merit.
EDIT: And I might add that now would be a good time to give it serious consideration with the new integrated site theme seemingly at hand. No comments at all are taken as same as it ever was.
Last edited by Destry (2008-08-26 15:01:53)
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Re: [contrib] Improving textpattern.org - request for information
stopsatgreen wrote:
This is a continuation of the topic I began previously’m planning a wireframe of …textpattern.org. (Ed. Link added for clarity.)
@stopsatgreen,
You haven’t been around poking this project. I hope you didn’t get discouraged. These kinds of projects (i.e., horse by committee) are not easy, and by their nature require even more aggressive poking to ensure a camel isn’t produced. Regardless of the actual development work (i.e., who’s going to do it, how, and when), there’s nothing wrong with kicking around the concepts and visual plans to shed light on it. In short, I hope to see you back in the saddle soon on this effort.
Most likely when the other projects stabilize (.com, .net) other people will pitch more thoughts to this one.
One thing I would suggest is not create a new thread for every stage or idea of the project. The forum is too confusing as it is. Use this thread and let it grow. Long threads can have their problems too, but they are decidedly better than having multiple threads on the same subject. (TextBook perhaps being a topic of exception here because it has it’s own forum in the Forum—I would argue unnecessarily—and thus singular threads are expected there.)
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