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Re: Txp Admin
Always interesting to see new takes. Again, like masa mentioned in the other thread, I can’t help thinking that there’s still too much concentration on eye-candy, UI, technologies and too little thought on how it is actually used and by whom. In my view that’s the wrong motivation for a redesign.
Two examples:
- The drop-down menus look tidier but they also elevate the “areas” at the expense of the “actions”. In my view it should be other way around. When you set up a login for a normal author (i.e. not an admin), all they will see is content and admin. Admin they only need once in a blue moon should their e-mail change or they want a new password. What they really want to do is “write an article”, “change an article”, “add a picture”, “add a link”… but none of these options are to be seen on-screen. And if that author is not too tech-savvy, they are already lost because the word content doesn’t give any visual cue as to what it is. A further side-effect of not having the actions bar is that one needs an extra location breadcrumb. What you’ve taken away, you’ve added elsewhere.
- Similarly, accordians reduces clutter but it also hides what might be relevant or even important information that needs entering. Normal users or users who update only occasionally won’t know what’s behind which accordian and have to look through them all. In the end, they omit important information, e.g. an event gets added without the date or the users forgets to assign it to the correct section resulting in the post appearing in the wrong place, possibly breaking the front-end layout… and so on and so forth…
In short:
- a redesign should make it easier and better to use, not just make things look neat or nice (which is subjective anyway).
- Moreover, any redesign will need to bridge between (or be adaptable to) the needs of a normal non-expert user on the one hand and the site designer/admin on the other.
- Finally, I would want to be able to ‘personalise’ the back-end to a degree, e.g. so that the author thinks of it as “theirs”. That adds a branding dilemma to the equation.
Where I agree with you is with two columns, though not so much because of things being cramped – if you just want to de-cramp things you could use the whole width of the window (which you could do anyway). Two columns work well in my view because most people (in the western world) begin at the top left and work down, then move over to the top-right and work their way down again. For a large proportion of users it’s quite natural. In my view, the second column should show relevant information that needs filling out for the article to be complete. The option to save should be after that. Non-essential fields can be tidied away behind hidden panes (similar technology to an accordian, but different principle).
Some more pointers: guiguibonbon/guillaume already pursued some ideas along those lines here taking the choice of section/category as his starting point. iblastoff/steve compiled lots of previous attempts here. Personally, I found this mock-up most promising and have pursued it further for my own implementation.
TXP Builders – finely-crafted code, design and txp
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Re: Txp Admin
My 2p. I can’t really see any significant improvement with this design (or for that matter any designs I’ve seen so far) over the original. FWIW, if there were 3 rows at the top – Content and its tabs, Presentation and its tabs and Admin and its tabs – all on view it would save clicking and clearly show what relates to what. The dropdown could then be dispensed with. Also if the Advanced Options on the left were always open, that would be great.
Dozy P My attempt at music
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Re: Txp Admin
Jacob,
Very well said. I hadn’t thought about this from the perspective on any other user level except “publisher/admin”.
You make a great point about the drop downs hiding everything useful except “content” for lower level users.
Driz,
Chin up ‘ole chap…this is a tough crowd.
Your suggestions/perspective are much appreciated, and producing some interesting conversation.
:)
Last edited by renobird (2008-07-05 16:30:45)
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Re: Txp Admin
cool cool :)
how does one go about getting this worked into the next version of Txp? like say v5.0
x
~ Cameron
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#20 2008-07-05 20:34:03
- els
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- From: The Netherlands
- Registered: 2004-06-06
- Posts: 7,458
Re: Txp Admin
driz wrote:
how does one go about getting this worked into the next version of Txp?
Excuse me? Do you know how many there already are? (example, example, example, example, example, and so on…)
Let me repeat myself once more ;)
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Re: Txp Admin
Els wrote:
driz wrote:
how does one go about getting this worked into the next version of Txp?
Excuse me? Do you know how many there already are? (example, example, example, example, example, and so on…)
Let me repeat myself once more ;)
Those are all mods, I’m talking about an actual redesign of the structure. Not just the styling. x
Last edited by driz (2008-07-05 23:16:59)
~ Cameron
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#22 2008-07-05 23:20:02
- masa
- Member
- From: North Wales, UK
- Registered: 2005-11-25
- Posts: 1,095
Re: Txp Admin
driz wrote:
Those are all mods, I’m talking about an actual redesign of the structure. Not just the styling.
Through recent years there have been many attempts to redesign the interface, but they’ve all fallen short to provide a convincingly better alternative to what we have currently.
If you can come up with such a solution in a way that won’t disrupt things, I’m sure your input will be much appreciated.
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Re: Txp Admin
masa wrote:
Through recent years there have been many attempts to redesign the interface, but they’ve all fallen short to provide a convincingly better alternative to what we have currently.
If you can come up with such a solution in a way that won’t disrupt things, I’m sure your input will be much appreciated.
Hmm well I think my approach keeps it similar to what we have now, and keeps the branding inline, all the other ones just feel like mods, rather than a fresh look. x
~ Cameron
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Re: Txp Admin
re: admin makeovers/skins/mods – whatever you want to call them. Some of them deal with structure also.
re: skinning and branding – Crockery (the next major rewrite) has already introduced the beginnings of admin theme support.
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Re: Txp Admin
maverick wrote:
re: admin makeovers/skins/mods – whatever you want to call them. Some of them deal with structure also.
re: skinning and branding – Crockery (the next major rewrite) has already introduced the beginnings of admin theme support.
Hmm, I don’t think the admin should have themes, rather have a nice semantic structure that can be tweaked using CSS, themes annoy the hell out of me. x
~ Cameron
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Re: Txp Admin
driz wrote:
how does one go about getting this worked into the next version of Txp? like say v5.0
Next version is 4.0.7 and the next future major version is 4.1 – Crockery. To make it clear 4.x-series is actually the first realease (4.0.6 really is 1.0.6) ;)
Btw, eh, some of those “themes” aren’t mods that deal only the design. Mine didn’t.
Last edited by Gocom (2008-07-06 05:26:07)
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#27 2008-07-06 05:24:24
- Mary
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- Registered: 2004-06-27
- Posts: 6,236
Re: Txp Admin
…rather have a nice semantic structure that can be tweaked using CSS…
That’s what you could choose to do if you wanted.
Last edited by Mary (2008-07-06 05:33:56)
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Re: Txp Admin
Those are all mods, I’m talking about an actual redesign of the structure. Not just the styling.
Gocom’s version (linked to by Els) is, as far as I remember, an entirely recoded version of the back-end pane (never released, though). I couldn’t achieve the changes I wanted with CSS alone so I also changed the source – both of those are structural. Aeron uses jquery to change the source and add CSS once loaded. That’s a further approach that takes the existing code as its starting point and is also structural.
Why not try implementing your design, then test it in serious use? Mock-ups can only go so far. Work with lots of articles, work with lots of different types of articles, imagine how noobs find their way through it. Such uses cases have led to plugins such as sed_section_fields or ied_hide_in_admin to name just two popular that directly address the admin area.
Through recent years there have been many attempts to redesign the interface, but they’ve all fallen short to provide a convincingly better alternative to what we have currently.
One of the problems is that an admin area needs to be something different to all people, whether different classes of admin users (admin/dev or normal author) or simply different txp users who use txp for different purposes and would prefer this that or the other. Ideally, the admin area should be adaptable – certain core areas will always be present, others will need to be adaptable. To a certain degree, this reflects a basic premise of txp – a core set of functions extendable via plugins in different directions.
…rather have a nice semantic structure that can be tweaked using CSS… themes annoy the hell out of me.
not sure where the difference is here. Is not styling an essential part of a theme?
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Re: Txp Admin
Ha haaa! Yes join the queue Driz. I actually think the way to go with this is to move the textpattern CSS into the “Style” tab which would then mean everyone could style the admin the way THEY want it quite easily though limited by the current mark-up. It’s the way I went with my own style allowing users to make changes easily. I know there are areas where the mark-up could be improved as well but I’m not holding my breath for that. I don’t think it will happen in the near future as it poses some problems for certain admin plug-ins and the like as I understand it. Never-the-less moving the CSS would be a very simple adjustment which the devs could consider immediately without any detrimental effect as far as I am aware, making the textpattern CSS non-deletable as well. It would give everyone a bit more flexibility.
Stuart
In a Time of Universal Deceit
Telling the Truth is Revolutionary.
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Re: Txp Admin
thebombsite a écrit:
Never-the-less moving the CSS would be a very simple adjustment which the devs could consider immediately without any detrimental effect as far as I am aware, making the textpattern CSS non-deletable as well. It would give everyone a bit more flexibility.
I’m using an «old» plugin that let you alter the TXP CSS : hpw_admincss
françois
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