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Re: status in txp:article as list
wet wrote:
Hidden, draft, pending and live are intended as workflow states controling how various roles interact with articles (freelancer, publisher,…), while sticky is a presentational flag which better was represented as a checkbox that adds to any of the other four stati.
Ahhhh *lightbulb goes on* a very neat explanation wet, thanks. Having only ever known TXP have 5 distinct statuses it always seemed odd to me to have what appears on the surface to be 5 “levels” of document of which only 2 were “visible”.
When I was a total n00b, I initally assumed (naively) that ‘draft’ might be used to allow authors to “preview” the document without it being active in any of the article lists, thus “hidden” from view for most users while allowing authors with a particular access level to see exactly what their doc will look like when it’s finally integrated into the site and published.
Maybe I should have the read the FAQ or Textbook 101 entry that explains what each status is for, and the typical role for which each is intended… is there one?
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#17 2008-01-04 17:08:59
- guiguibonbon
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- Registered: 2006-02-20
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Re: status in txp:article as list
wet wrote:
IMHO, we suffer from unclear semantics regarding the purpose of the article status.
Hidden, draft, pending and live are intended as workflow states controling how various roles interact with articles (freelancer, publisher,…), while sticky is a presentational flag which better was represented as a checkbox that adds to any of the other four stati.
I agree on that. I actually think it’s a rather overcomplicated and confusing workflow pattern and wonder how much it’s actually being used. And by who : I mean, you have to be a real prick to want to put so much hierarchy for its own sake in it.
Mary wrote:
Then what’s the point of “hidden”? or “draft” or…?
If it were called “unpublished” I could answer that. Right now I’d say making the, er… what’s the name, Managing Editor or whatever, feel powerful. And others feel miserable.
Bloke wrote:
Maybe I should have the read the FAQ or Textbook 101 entry that explains what each status is for, and the typical role for which each is intended… is there one?
Read above.
I’ll get back to the rest once I’ll have made more progress on that patch.
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#18 2008-01-04 17:12:31
- guiguibonbon
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- Registered: 2006-02-20
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Re: status in txp:article as list
When I was a total n00b, I initally assumed (naively) that ‘draft’ might be used to allow authors to “preview” the document without it being active in any of the article lists, thus “hidden” from view for most users while allowing authors with a particular access level to see exactly what their doc will look like when it’s finally integrated into the site and published.
That’s actually part of what I intend to make possible easier with the patch.
Last edited by guiguibonbon (2008-01-04 17:13:01)
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#19 2008-01-06 03:47:17
- Mary
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Re: status in txp:article as list
…and wonder how much it’s actually being used. And by who : I mean, you have to be a real prick to want to put so much hierarchy for its own sake in it.
Just because you can’t make use of a feature does not give you the right to insult those who can. Argue the costs/benefits, not an opinion of the developer’s/user’s personality.
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#20 2008-01-06 05:01:01
- guiguibonbon
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Re: status in txp:article as list
That was humour. Sort of. An exaggerative statement to highlight how the different privileges and stati are entirely arbitrary, technically unfunded and have no other intent but to hierarchise up to a somewhat amusing level. And, in my experience, never really manage to fit regular needs.
But I’m OK with it. It’s one of those quirky things about textpattern that give it a certain charm. Like the css-editor. That one is funny too. The most elaborate and yet essentially useless feature there is.
Last edited by guiguibonbon (2008-01-06 05:02:28)
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Re: status in txp:article as list
Fearing I fall under the “humourous” description above, I hesitate to admit that the workflow makes sense to me; but it does.
Worse, I mostly like it. In my mind there is a difference between an article in draft state and an article submitted for approval (pending) and a published article. That’s three statuses from a work flow standpoint, and that doesn’t seem excessive to me. Once approved and published, it can be presented (or not presented as the case may be) using “live”, “sticky”, or “hidden”. I see a use for each.
I agree there seems to be a semantical issue. I second the idea that “sticky” shouldn’t be handled as part of the work flow. I can see a use for hidden at times as well; if I understand it correctly, it also should be handled in the same way as sticky – as different than part of the work flow. Live can be confusing; it makes me think of “published”, but then “sticky” is “live” in the sense of being published.
It might be more clear if there were two columns: Work Flow Status: draft -> pending -> published (or “live”), and a second column for how its presented: Published Status: dynamic (or live or normal) / sticky / hidden. The second column could be set any time, but only would apply when the first column was set to “published” or “live”.
But I can live with it the way it is. And support those who want a hack or plugin to change it.
My late night, bleary-eyed 2 cents. :)
Mike
Last edited by maverick (2008-01-06 06:13:52)
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Re: status in txp:article as list
Bloke wrote:
Maybe I should have the read the FAQ or Textbook 101 entry that explains what each status is for, and the typical role for which each is intended… is there one?
Cheers!
Last edited by Gocom (2008-01-06 06:14:01)
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#23 2008-01-06 13:32:44
- guiguibonbon
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Re: status in txp:article as list
Fearing I fall under the “humourous” description above, I hesitate to admit that the workflow makes sense to me; but it does.
Shure, it makes sense. Like the css-editor does. But in normal situations, I think you would just agree between editing parties that one member prefers to read stuff before it is being published. And you point out that you mildly appreciate your own stuff to be edited by others. And then just trust the people you work with. I doubt, but actually have no idea, that even newspapers use such a stiff permission-based and restrictive workflow.
In other words, the system looks more like it has been designed for some Chinese communist party website. Since it’s been the same from day one, I guess, but again have no actually idea, permissions was a must-have feature in 2001, and Dean just had some fun seeing what he could come up with. The fact it’s still there, and unchanged, probably reflects both something about how little interest it generates, and how textpattern is being developed (drawn mostly by user request). Again, I don’t think it’s a negative thing per se.
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Re: status in txp:article as list
Thanks for the links Gocom, knew it had to be in there somewhere! Who’d have thought it would be in the document about the Write Tab
*Stef looks down at his shoes in embarrassment*
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Re: status in txp:article as list
…it means there’s no way to mix sticky and live articles in a list.
Take for instance that you’d like only sticky articles to show up on the front page, while you’d like them to appear amongst live ones on their section’s page. Granted, this could be achieved with categories, but still…
So, my point : allow to use
status="live,sticky"in the article tag and all is solved. There’s no backwards compatibility issue whatsoever, if you keep the default to 4. Sure, it all remains a bit confusing for noobs who will have to figure out how it comes their sticky article doesn’t show up.
I’ve just upgraded a site from an older txp version in which I have exactly this situation. Now that I’ve upgraded, all the sticky articles that appear on the front page have dropped out of the menus and sitemap etc. etc. I thought this had been made possible again in the meantime, but maybe I was mistaken? I’m no longer a noob, but how does one get sticky and live articles to appear interleaved in one and the same list?
I know I could do txp:article with status is sticky, then txp:article with status is live but it’s less than ideal as the order of menu items changes, articles in sitemaps change position – that’s disorientating for the client and site visitors and I don’t even want to have to explain why.
I’m also not keen on alternative routes: I’m already using two categories and don’t really want to go the whole rss_unlimited_categories route or sacrifice a valuable custom field to simply set a “show on front page” flag? Both seem inelegant solutions to me – setting a “sticky” article was perfect.
Anyway, I’m working on a patch.
Guillaume, would you care to share your patch?
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Re: status in txp:article as list
It may not be very elegant but the following additions to the function doArticle enable one to have status="live,sticky" or status="4,5" without changing previous behaviour:
Add
$stickyandlive = in_array(strtolower($status), array('live,sticky', 'sticky,live', '4,5', '5,4')) ? true : false;in front of line 608 of publish.php (above the line beginning $status = in_array(...
and a little further down in front of line 690 in publish.php:
elseif ($stickyandlive)
$statusq = ' and Status >= 4';in front of the line beginning else
There’s probably a more elegant way of doing it. If so, let me know.
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