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[feedback] some suggestions on improving txp workflow for n00bs
i just want to say that although the textbook is being rewritten, i am getting a little disillusioned with textpattern at times. when i get things accomplished with it i feel great, but sometimes i find that the steps i take to find answers can be a bit cumbersome. the way i see it:
the pros:- a great support forum where everyone responds in a timely and helpful manner
- a nice cms that helps you work on the visual side of your site very easily
- a softcover book published and available in stores to help educate new users
- requires many plugins to do some simple tasks
- if the simple tasks are easily done by tags, they seem to be missing from the textbook
- many plugins have poor documentation for non-coders, and very few usage examples.
- if some useful info is revealed on the forum, it’s not updated into the documentation in the plugin
my advice is that plugin support needs a whole new forum. each plugin author deserves their own subforum if they’ve coded more than say 3 plugins. for some of the big plugins you have to sift through like 20-30 pages of forum discussion that is completely scattered to find an answer. the current forum simply can’t accomodate new threads for each issue, but it really should. i know i’m not the only txp user who is scratching his head every session.
otherwise i thank everyone for the work they’ve done up until now, both in making their code available to us for free, as well as taking the time to help on the forum. it’s amazing what you can accomplish with this software if you put your mind to it. it’s pretty much endless!
Last edited by mrtunes (2008-06-30 05:08:36)
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Re: [feedback] some suggestions on improving txp workflow for n00bs
Hi Elliot, I hear your frustration. My best advice is simply to post your questions. As you get the hang of it, you’ll find it easier to find what you’re looking for.
- requires many plugins to do some simple tasks
- if the simple tasks are easily done by tags, they seem to be missing from the textbook
Obviously that depends on what the simple tasks are. Certain functionality is not included in the core as not everyone will need it and is therefore ideally provided by a plugin that provides that functionality for those who need it leaving the core leaner for those who don’t. Go ahead and ask and someone may have a solution – that’s what the forum is for :-)
- many plugins have poor documentation for non-coders, and very few usage examples.
- if some useful info is revealed on the forum, it’s not updated into the documentation in the plugin
This is down to the respective plugin author – some are more diligent about documentation, others less so. I guess that after having coded a plugin to the stage that everything works, the writing of documentation, although necessary, can be a chore. Some plugin authors don’t duplicate the help in the plugin on their own site or the forum, which I occasionally find a nuisance as it means one has to install the plugin to read up how to use it (you don’t have to activate it, though) – often they are plugins that simply add a twist to existing txp functions. Others are very good providing complete help infos and even changelists.
my advice is that plugin support needs a whole new forum.
Technically speaking there is a plugin author support forum. No idea how the plugin authors feel, but I can imagine that having a dedicated additional forum to manage increases their workload still further and that the support obligation it entails might even be a disincentive to release a plugin. The forum is ideal in that the support workload is shared by many.
for some of the big plugins you have to sift through like 20-30 pages of forum discussion that is completely scattered to find an answer.
Yes, that is a problem sometimes, plus the fact that some plugins relate to earlier versions of txp (the mods try to archive as much of that as possible).
the current forum simply can’t accomodate new threads for each issue, but it really should. i know i’m not the only txp user who is scratching his head every session.
Just go ahead and post your question in a new thread as necessary and people will endeavour to do their best to help you find the answer :-)
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Re: [feedback] some suggestions on improving txp workflow for n00bs
hi jakob. thanks for your opinions on my feedback. i’d say the tipping point for me was when i had to install a plugin that displays the date – upm_datetime. it works out of the box, but then you have to sift through the help to get it to sing and dance. but txp knows the date and time, and it even let’s you display it on an article. why did i need that plugin? well mary saw a need and was kind enough to code it, as just about every plugin in the database had someone helpful see a need and address it for us.
another example is something like rss_unlimited_categories. it’s probably one of the most popular plugins, so why doesn’t it just get integrated into the core installation?
i see the other side of the coin though, and i am aware that installing txp is a fraction of the bloat of say the phpBB software which takes forever to load/unload onto a ftp.
i just feel like a lot more should be integrated in future releases.
as for the multiple forums, i got the idea from the forum that i frequent the most
so here’s the problem in my opinion: if most of the bells and whistles are offloaded onto plugin developers, and some devs don’t have the time to document their programs better, where does it leave the project as a whole? i wouldn’t be complaining if i didn’t see many other threads where the users are frustrated with getting things to sing and dance.
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Re: [feedback] some suggestions on improving txp workflow for n00bs
mrtunes wrote:
so here’s the problem in my opinion: if most of the bells and whistles are offloaded onto plugin developers, and some devs don’t have the time to document their programs better, where does it leave the project as a whole?
Hi mrtunes
Documentation of txp has since the early days been in the hands of the community. Our devs do enough improving the program. textbook accounts are given to anyone who wishes to contribute.
we have to keep in mind here that this is a software which does not generate any income for anyone except designers.
Last edited by colak (2008-06-30 07:23:24)
Yiannis
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Re: [feedback] some suggestions on improving txp workflow for n00bs
colak wrote:
Hi mrtunes
Documentation of txp has since the early days been in the hands of the community. Our devs do enough improving the program. textbook accounts are given to anyone who wishes to contribute. we have to keep in mind here that this is a software which does not generate any income for anyone except designers.
i hear you man. and this isn’t the only project of this sort, so i’m trying to learn PHP on my spare time so i can gain a bit of independence.
but even if i learned a few things, i wouldn’t be able to build a CMS as powerful as this one can be.
if the project itself is lacking funding, maybe we should consider a fundraising project? but i don’t think you’re implying that the funds are impeding development.
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Re: [feedback] some suggestions on improving txp workflow for n00bs
mrtunes wrote:
if the project itself is lacking funding, maybe we should consider a fundraising project?
I think that our devs would welcome anyone who could think of a good one:)
but i don’t think you’re implying that the funds are impeding development.
By no means. The recent additions and improvements for the forthcoming 407 release prove the exact opposite.
Yiannis
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NeMe | hblack.art | EMAP | A Sea change | Toolkit of Care
I do my best editing after I click on the submit button.
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Re: [feedback] some suggestions on improving txp workflow for n00bs
mrtunes wrote:
something like rss_unlimited_categories. it’s probably one of the most popular plugins, so why doesn’t it just get integrated into the core installation?
Yes it is popular, yes it is very very useful, but unfortunately — putting my coding hat on — it’s non-trivial to make that much of a change to the core without some intense fallout. From what I can see, doing something like that would impact a lot of tags and tables in the database, not to mention plugins that rely on the category being in that particular place in the tables.
The same goes for >10 custom fields. They are fixed in the article table and really need their own table so they can be free. But again, that is a major undertaking to ensure the codebase doesn’t implode.
Neither of these features would probably bloat the core that much — in fact they may even make it leaner — it’s simply a matter of managing such a far-reaching internal change.
Suffice to say it’s known about and I’d love to see either/both implemented tomorrow but it isn’t going to happen that quickly!
i wouldn’t be complaining if i didn’t see many other threads where the users are frustrated with getting things to sing and dance.
I hear you. Some of my threads have become stupidly long and arduous to navigate (meh, prolly ‘coz I talk too much!)
I think a “Search within this thread” feature was proposed a while ago but it was pointed out that Google does an admirable job of providing that functionality without anyone else having to do anything :-)
If you look at the first post of (most of) my plugins you’ll see I’ve tried to index every major change and direct you to where that change occurred — and who triggered it — in the deeper recesses of the thread so you can find more about it without trawling through all the pages. Hopefully that’s worked but if you feel I could do more to help, let me know and I’ll see what I can do. Can’t promise anything — I’m only one guy — but sometimes the coding mentality isn’t the same as the user mentality and some things I do that make sense to me don’t make sense to others.
Also, when I spot someone recommends a good trick I try to add that to the help in the next release, but I do forget sometimes. Again, if you spot anything, shout.
As colak said, documentation is at the whim of the developer. Some love it, some don’t, some make it too wordy *cough cough*, others are far better at it, like Mary: just the facts and some examples.
And with regards Textbook, if you see an error or an omission while you are working on a site, or spot something isn’t quite right, just change it. I agree some of the examples leave a lot to be desired and the description of the tags/options can sometimes be a bit head-scratchy. Hopefully as Destry et al grab the thing by the horns and show us how a wiki should sing (it’s not my field of expertise at all), the project will forge ahead and documentation will become far easier for the community to manage, as long as we stick to some basic ideals and naming conventions.
Last edited by Bloke (2008-06-30 08:26:44)
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