repackaging/redistributing plugins

hcgtv · 2008-06-29 20:08:26

Wordpress is GPL, then how can Sadish Bala charge for his themes?

Wet, you know Sadish, he’s the one who created MistyLook. Here’s his License Info, yet the txp-templates site relicensed it under a Creative Commons license?

net-carver · 2008-06-30 01:21:30

kemie wrote:

I understand legally I’m allowed to distribute the plugins, my 2 main concerns are:
-Do the authors authorize this? I would not want to do it if they were uncomfortable with the idea

AFAIK, no plugin author could take a legal stand against your re-distribution or modification of their plugin. But as your original question is simply about an author objecting (now being “uncomfortable”), that might be a slightly different matter.

To answer net’s second question, again, the idea is not 100% clear yet, but I’m thinking I would support installation and usage of the plugin within the context of my template d , and would redirect to plugin autors in case of bug reports or technical issues. Does this sound fair?

From my POV that would be fine. I can’t speak for anyone else. You’d have to take into account the possible slow response of plugin authors (or perhaps total lack of response) if you were to redirect your clients to them.

I’m really interested in getting input here. Like I said, the last thing I want to do is do something that authors are not happy with.

Regarding my own plugins: I have no objections or discomfort with you using any of my plugins this way — except for sed_afu. Whilst I can’t prevent it, I would ask you to have an email exchange with me so you could warn your potential users about it first. If this plugin is not even on your radar screen then never mind. :)

wet · 2008-06-30 04:14:36

hcgtv wrote:

Wordpress is GPL, then how can Sadish Bala charge for his themes?

From http://wpthemes.info/license-info/:

You can use the themes in your website as long as you keep the credits to our website in-tact. If you wish to remove the footer links, consider making a donation of $20.

I cannot see where he charges for his theme, her requests donations which is of course permitted as per the GPL. mapu who built the txp-templates site has apparently contacted the theme’s authors before he released the TXP ports and received their blessing.

Last edited by wet (2008-06-30 04:18:04)

kemie · 2008-06-30 08:55:23

hcgtv wrote:

Wordpress is GPL, then how can Sadish Bala charge for his themes?

The GPL does allow you to sell GPL-licenced code.

From the GPL FAQ

Does the GPL allow me to sell copies of the program for money?

Yes, the GPL allows everyone to do this. The right to sell copies is part of the definition of free software. Except in one special situation, there is no limit on what price you can charge. (The one exception is the required written offer to provide source code that must accompany binary-only release.)

ruud · 2008-06-30 17:23:45

GPL is not compatible with advertising clauses, as far as I know.

Last edited by hakjoon (2008-06-30 18:02:37)

hakjoon · 2008-06-30 18:05:45

ruud wrote:
GPL is not compatible with advertising clauses, as far as I know.

I think the advertising clause is the one thing that makes the original BSD license GPL-Incompatible.

ruud: sorry I accidentally hit edit instead of quote on your post and didn’t realize until my reply posted as you. I tried to edit it back to the way it originally was.

[Ruud says: no problem :)]

Last edited by ruud (2008-06-30 18:21:04)

hcgtv · 2008-06-30 18:51:59

ruud wrote:

GPL is not compatible with advertising clauses, as far as I know.

Maybe it isn’t but just about every theme site goes about it the same way, though many distribute their themes with a Creative Commons license.

If you remember, there was a Wordpress themes debate last year about sponsored links in the offered themes. Imagine having thousands of sites with links to your product of choice, very profitable for all involved. Then Google countered and started to punish sites doing this, one of my sites still hasn’t recovered from this, since I created many themes for Nucleus CMS and I had footer links.

I’ve followed the themes scene for many years, yes there’s money to be made with selling individual templates but I think there’s more money in setting up a club. Pay an annual membership and you get access to all themes, it’s just more inviting to the user and easier to manage overall.

As for this thread, whether you’ll see Textpattern templates for sale is not the question we should be asking, it’s a question of when. So my advice is for the core devs to come up with a policy they are happy with, so kemie can get to work ;)

kemie · 2008-06-30 19:04:34

Bert, as I see it your plugin is key to making the whole template idea into a reality. I’m curious to see what your personal opinion is on templates and plugins, and money and licences.

hcgtv · 2008-06-30 21:25:14

kemie,

Let me give you a little background first, I arrived at Textpattern coming from Nucleus CMS. Nucleus has an excellent templating system, where one can have any number of templates in the backend. In Nucleus, they are called skins and it comprises all the page elements into an XML package that can be uploaded. So naturally, I wanted to have the same capabilities in Textpattern.

After spending a number of months with Textpattern, I happened upon Mike’s mcw_templates. I instantly got on the forum and started to extol the virtues of the plugin, I was ignored. Seems like templates weren’t on the radar of the core devs. I then took it upon myself to investigate, I contacted Mike, he never responded. So I forked the plugin to make hcg_templates.

By this time I figured that Team Textpattern didn’t care about templating so I launched TxPide, goes to show you how an obscure plugin can become well known with just a bit of marketing. Though the plugin facilitated importing pages, forms and styles into the backend, there was still core changes that needed to be made so that a true plug and play system was in place. And of course, make it easier to have multiple templates in the backend, this is especially useful for designers where you can use one Textpattern install to manage all your clients.

Ever since I began the templating talk, I’ve had mixed reviews. I can’t quite put my finger on why a templating system would turn off designers, it’s not like it would take work away from them, in actuality, they would have a bigger pool of users to promote themselves to. And if done right, you won’t be able to tell if this or that site is running Textpattern, cause we can absorb any and all templates from other projects, like I did with Kubrick at Nucleus.

On bundling plugins, well, they are GPL. It’s the nature of the beast, you can’t have a free distribution system and then quibble over someone packaging it differently. Honestly, I think plugins are not promoted that much and the mechanisms in place are a bit detrimental to the user experience. We should highlight the cream of the crop and offer a better way to support them, instead of 20 page forum threads. But hey, that’s another chapter left to be written.

As for the money, I don’t see why I can’t make money from pretty packaging and attractive distribution. If I happen to spend 10 to 15 hours of my week managing a template site, I should be allowed to make some cash from it, call it an incentive. I’ve seen too many sites popup and then shortly die cause of lack of funds or interest. Just send me $5, with a thank you note and I’m cool.

On the licensing, well, I’m a fan of the GPL. What I do today should live on tomorrow. Which brings me to a funny story. I got an email from someone asking me how I liked a certain Chinese restaurant, I was like confused cause the restaurant in question wasn’t even in my town. So I went to the site and noticed that the restaurant was using Nucleus with the Kubrick skin that I had ported. Our legacy lives on, thanks to the GPL.

One last note, the reason I’m interested in templates is not because I can’t code in HTML or CSS, it’s because I’m color blind.

Last edited by hcgtv (2008-07-21 20:14:33)

mrdale · 2008-07-01 02:53:32

Bert >

Your work on the templates is excellent and really needed. From a users perspective I just never get around to generalizing a design and turning it into a template before I begin with the next project… So I never actually build one, and rarely ever think of deploying one. So while I think it’s extremely valuable, I think I’m probably not the ideal user.

Having said that though, I think there’s a bit of a new spirit flying around in terms of the devs reconsidering needs. I’m seeing less of the old “supply and not demmand-driven” nonsense and some great new ideas.

Maybe you should float the idea again?

>kemmie

Good luck! If you add enough value people are pretty supportive and greatful.

hcgtv · 2008-07-01 16:26:48

mrdale wrote:

Your work on the templates is excellent and really needed.

thanks.

kemie · 2008-07-01 18:47:24

would be no talk of “templates” without your plugin, bert!

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#13 2008-06-29 20:08:26

Re: repackaging/redistributing plugins

#14 2008-06-30 01:21:30

Re: repackaging/redistributing plugins

#15 2008-06-30 04:14:36

Re: repackaging/redistributing plugins

#16 2008-06-30 08:55:23

Re: repackaging/redistributing plugins

#17 2008-06-30 17:23:45

Re: repackaging/redistributing plugins

#18 2008-06-30 18:05:45

Re: repackaging/redistributing plugins

#19 2008-06-30 18:51:59

Re: repackaging/redistributing plugins

#20 2008-06-30 19:04:34

Re: repackaging/redistributing plugins

#21 2008-06-30 21:25:14

Re: repackaging/redistributing plugins

#22 2008-07-01 02:53:32

Re: repackaging/redistributing plugins

#23 2008-07-01 16:26:48

Re: repackaging/redistributing plugins

#24 2008-07-01 18:47:24

Re: repackaging/redistributing plugins

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