Blog platforms design critique

uli · 2008-05-14 09:16:22

One for the front page:

jcr4runner wrote

I just created a hierarchy of 25 index pages. Yeeha! […] I am sure there are a half dozen better ways, but I am congratulating myself since I didn’t know what a <txp: …> tag was for 72 hours ago.

Uh … well, not exactly the front page and not exactly testimonials, but at least the simplicity of writing/figuring out txp code and it’s human readability should find a place anywhere in the redesign of the page.

zero · 2008-05-14 18:07:01

I hope you’re all doing what maniqui has told you! :)

I’ll get around to my take on the txp.com content in a bit, but right now I think there is something just as important or more important than redesigning txp.com – updating existing page templates and forms so they are more usable, accessible and solid when 4.0.7 comes out. I explain why in this article about Textpattern defaults and I’ve put up some alternatives and I’d like to display your alternatives, too, if you’re interested and we can figure out a good way to do it.

In case any of you are wondering, there’ll be more TXPQ interviews when some of the many people with my questions get back to me.

thebombsite · 2008-05-15 15:04:53

Well as I tend to keep abreast of the latest SVN I do think that some of the new additions since 4.0.6 are quite complex, for example how to fully utilize the new parser assuming it makes it to 4.0.7. I was thinking that maybe some new article and menu content might include examples of how to use some of the new stuff alongside a new design which I still think should match the textpattern.com site re-design.

EDIT

In fact, just thinking out loud, instead of having useless articles full of Lorem Ipsum, why don’t we have useful articles with a bit of instruction in them instead?

Last edited by thebombsite (2008-05-15 15:07:38)

ruud · 2008-05-15 17:18:44

I’ll write an article in the dev weblog about the new parser.

Bloke · 2008-05-15 17:41:31

thebombsite wrote:

instead of having useless articles full of Lorem Ipsum, why don’t we have useful articles with a bit of instruction in them instead?

A very worthwhile idea, imo. Providing the dev team don’t mind potentially updating the content in the template with each release, of course.

masa · 2008-05-15 17:57:15

uli wrote:

Uh … well, not exactly the front page and not exactly testimonials, but at least the simplicity of writing/figuring out txp code and it’s human readability should find a place anywhere in the redesign of the page.

Yes, I totally agree.
The first time I looked at a Txp template I thought “hey, that all looks familiar!”

It was quite a stark contrast to the other CMSes’ templates, that contained all sorts of, to me, obscure code and/or PHP.

Strong selling point!

maniqui wrote:

Probably, the best/easiest way to achieve this is aggregating a feed from WeLoveTXP.com sorted by ranking (if possible).
No need to reinvent the wheel. WeLoveTXP is doing a great job on indexing Textpattern-driven sites.

While I do agree that WeLoveTXP.com does an excellent job at collecting impressive samples, I think we ought to be careful here not to redirect visitors too soon to another site.

In my opinion it would be preferable to present a few hand-picked, outstanding sites right on the Txp homepage and then offer a link to more at WeLoveTXP.com.

wet · 2008-05-15 18:39:31

thebombsite wrote:

I was thinking that maybe some new article and menu content might include examples of how to use some of the new stuff

This is one of the main purposes of the stock templates, imho. They have been amended to contain some hints for 4.0.7. We’re open for (simple, basic) suggestions, as always..

colak · 2008-05-15 19:02:44

This is the 4th page and although I contributed my penny’s worth earlier and having slept over it, here is what I believe regarding the article which started it all, even if it means that I will contradict my previous posts.

The article focused on and commented about the design of the front pages – and although it mentioned the content of those pages, it just scraped the surface. The book cannot be judged by its cover.

I always feel slightly irritated whenever textpatern is compared with wordpress as they are both very different tools. I would never try to compare a food blender to a lawnmower. They both have revolving blades but the comparison stops there. I would not try to prepare my dinner with a lawnmower though.

To me txp is very much a food blender as it can prepare and serve many different dishes, wp on the other hand, is a lawnmower, it does what it does very well but it is what it is: a blogging software. In my view the strength of txp is also its weakness. Its flexibility. Whenever I surf the web, I can always immediately recognise a wordpress site – maybe because of the popularity of some of its free templates. On the other hand, i find myself typing /textpattern/ in the address bar of some sites just to make sure that what I see is been made with txp.

wp’s branding went beyond its front page, it is embedded within the software and what it can produce. TXP is not about branding, it is about a utilitarian tool – a swiss knife – where how the front end functions is controlled by each individual designer and not by our developers.

We can fall into the article’s trap and create the most amazing front page. But txp is a tool with a very helpful community attached to it. Not a product nor a brand. We all use it as such. Some better than others. This is what we should all try to promote…

Well, I hope I didn’t bore you too much. I’m sure that this thread will grow with lots of different and poignant ideas.

>> edit: typos

Last edited by colak (2008-05-16 08:21:21)

Bloke · 2008-05-15 19:32:22

colak wrote:

I would not try to prepare my dinner with a lawnmower though.

You don’t know what you’re missing :-D

In my view the strength of txp is also its weakness. Its flexibility.

Yes. And I agree this redesign should not get carried away making a flashy front page with glass buttons and stuff everywere. imo, the key focus should still be:

de-clutter the front page a little to make it look less geeky
make the download link more prominent
tart the page up a bit (not much) — this may actually automatically happen by reshuffling the content, as Peter implied above

Stuart’s idea of replacing lorem ipsum in the default template with some “Welcome to TextPattern. From here you can…” should also be shoe-horned in somewhere under this umbrella because it gives first-timers slightly more comfort than a hunk of latin.

TXP is not about branding, it is about a utilitarian tool – a swiss knife – where how the front end functions is controlled by each individual designer and not by our developers.

Yes, though it still has “branding” (the yellow bar, love it or hate it). As you say, the default template is stark — by design — to promote the idea that TXP is a blank canvas, not a “find a template and make your site look the same as everyone else’s” tool.

To that end, the focus of the default template and the textpattern.com site should remain one of simplicity that echoes the sentiment of TXP: the first thing you see is the write tab, so just write ^TM. Of course, links to featured designs in the manner masa suggested a few posts ago will help show what’s possible. Then it’s your imagination — perhaps via the forums — to the stars! :-)

Last edited by Bloke (2008-05-15 19:33:28)

hcgtv · 2008-05-15 20:41:19

colak wrote:

TXP is not about branding, it is about a utilitarian tool – a swiss knife – where how the front end functions is controlled by each individual designer and not by our developers.

This whole thread is about asking the developers for control of the front end of Textpattern.com, I found this statement said it all.

Mary · 2008-05-16 04:57:59

Er, now you’re trailing off into the front-end defaults that ship with Textpattern, whereas I thought the discussion was about textpattern.com (although the title “Blog platforms design” is a little misleading)? I don’t think the two should “match” at all, and they each have their own specific considerations; one is for a live site documenting the cms, the other is a site wireframe that you get with the cms when you download it.

colak · 2008-05-16 05:39:06

hcgtv wrote:

This whole thread is about asking the developers for control of the front end of Textpattern.com.

Hi Bert… Well, not really.. I think that this thread is about discussing the review. I am yet to jumb to conclusions where this will lead. I keep an open mind:)

maniqui · 2008-05-16 06:37:05

I’m reviewing current TxP.com homepage content.
I think it’s the first time I read it since many years, if I ever read it, hehe. No, yes, I’ve read it before, some chunks at least.

Current content is pretty good! But there are some paragraph that doesn’t deserve to be there on year 2008.

What is it?

A flexible, elegant and easy-to-use content management system aimed to web designers/developers. Textpattern is both free and open source.

When it comes to publishing on the internet, beginners and experts alike are met with a bothersome paradox: word processors and graphics applications allow anyone to do a pretty good job of managing text and images on a personal computer, but to make these available to the worldwide web – a seemingly similar environment of documents and destinations – ease of use vanishes behind sudden requirements for multilingual programming skills, proficiency in computer-based graphic design, and, ultimately, the patience of a saint.
_{This could be made short, or moved to other place}.

Those who soldier on anyway may find themselves further held back by the web’s purported inflexibility with written language, with its reluctance to cope with all but the plainest of text, or by the unpredictable results brought about by using “WYSIWYG“ web editors.
_idem

Textpattern is a web application designed to ~~help overcome these and other hurdles to publishing online, and to~~ simplify the production of well-structured, standards-compliant web pages.
_{Maybe a sentence about TxP being an empty canvas?}

Text, Textile and XHTML

That section is pretty clear. Maybe it can have two or three quick Textile examples, or even a little textarea (hidden with JS/jQuery, show on click) to test it.
What about adding something about <txp:tags />, and how they work and make your life easier?

Pointing Elsewhere

That one really deserves to move somewhere below. In my opinion, linklist, blogrolls, etc, aren’t that important today, and they are something more “blog-centric” than a feature CMSs really needs. It isn’t that great feature, although, of course, it’s good to have it :).
But, again, highlighting that feature make TxP look a bit out-dated, and un-textpatternish. C’mon, we have better things under the sleeves!

Multiple Contributors

That one is pretty good too. It’s short and well written.

Working With Style

Another one pretty outdated. We all already know what CSS is, and if someone doesn’t, a link to the Wikipedia will do a better job explaining him/her than that paragraph on the homepage of TxP.
I would emphasize that CSS is saved on database, and even talk about rvm_css (ruud’s plug-in for improve CSS downloading performance), for those newcomers that always say: “css being saved on ddbb is bad, retarded, whatever”.
CSS saved on database -> no FTP needed to edit your style sheets -> just a webbrowser

In Automatic CSS mode, style sheet editing is taken to a sophisticated new level, using an editing interface and organizational method intended to make CSS parameters more readable and logical. Any existing style sheet can be “poured” into the editing interface and modified indefinitely.
_{Did Dean write that one? Is the Automatic CSS mode so important? I think I’ve used once or twice, like 4 years ago I would bet even CSS newbies won’t need it. I would remove that paragraph. Again, it makes TxP un-textpatternish, and if as wet said, TxP is aimed to web developers, such a tool isn’t really needed.}

Expanding Textpattern

This one should really go above, on second or third place!!! Plugins are Txp playing-cards under the sleeve.
A list with some cool plug-ins, or random plug-ins, or some examples of what can be done with plug-ins will really help promoting TxP power and flexibility.
Currently, there is no emphasis on the easy installation process, that is, explaining that in most cases it’s just copy/paste, no FTP involved, etc.
I would do some mention about the MLP (maybe on another section, in this case), zem_contact_reborn and other cool plug-ins, so newcomers get an idea about what a plug-in could do.

What is missing on homepage?

there is not even a word about TxP supporting clean URLs on default installation (if mod_rewrite is available). Clean URLs are very important/required feature nowadays…
the thumbnails don’t say absolute nothing… Yes, there is a large version if you click them, but in year 2008, having better/bigger thumbnails (and even large versions when clicking) is possible. We could use some jQuery plug-in (jQuery.serialScroll) to have a cool alternative to lightbox/thickbox, both for thumbnails and chunks of text content.
wet said he wouldn’t like too big fonts on home page. But, really, I would love to see a bigger version of TxP logo on homepage. Really, the logo deserves a better respect. It’s very textpatternish, it’s TxP brand, it’s different to most other CMS/blog tools logos out there. And bigger logos rulez these days. Does anyone have it on vector/hi-resolution png?

Last edited by maniqui (2008-05-16 15:24:43)

Bloke · 2008-05-16 08:42:49

Mary wrote:

don’t think the two should “match” at all, and they each have their own specific considerations

OK, sorry for confusing things. I’ll leave this discussion to those who understand design and purpose :-)

uli · 2008-05-16 10:18:49

Mary wrote

[…] front-end defaults […] textpattern.com […] I don’t think the two should “match” at all

The desire to have both, website and templates, look like made from one mould is absloutely justified. There are all these confusingly different designs of the sites around TXP, so one wouldn’t need even a fifth (eighth?) different brand design inside the package.

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