Please help me!! I Cannot work TXP out...and i want to!

Alfie · 2007-11-06 01:12:13

Hi, i need some help with TXP

I currently use Mambo on my non CSS sites but I need a CSS driven CMS.

I have been working solid for 2 days with TXP, i’ve been all over the net. Looked at a number of TXP driven sites. Installed pre made templates, then gone back to basics and tried using the default layout….and everything that I need is achievable, but to do it seems so complex. I could achieve things with mambo in a few minutes whereas TXP takes me 10 to do the same thing.

I’ve been working with HTML, PHP Table based websites for 10 years, and recently made a few CSS based sites. So im no novice!

Everytime I think ill give up I see the amount of people on who say “its so easy” and “its all I ever use” so I try again, I have never found anything with such a steep lurning curve before.

Now im not totally stupid, I’ve ported my CSS site to TXP, posted a few articles, formated some text using table tags etc, but the textile system with tags etc just seems to complicate things instead of making it easier. I think my problem is that im so used to “out of the box” solutions like mambo and wordpress that im not letting myself learn TXP as I think my client wont understand it. ……

…Still havnt managed to link multiple static pageses together yet (always 404)!!

With things like PHP if I didnt understand parts of it, i learnt it and put up with a few comlicated bits of code, but thats because I knew I wouldn’t have to explain it to clients when i’d finished.

Now waiting on the “textpattern Solutions” book to arrive. If that doesnt help im giving up! If I cant figure it out, how can I explain to my clients how to use it?

What I really need to know is:

A. How to add new single pages and easily add items into the menu (in mambo its easy) and link them together.

B. As I have a lot of infomation to put into the site, and my client will need to update the site with new pages like this. How I can [b]easily[/b] format information into table like structure (Is it only using the |this|is|a|table| way as i cant see the people im desinging the site for understanding it)

C: is it really as easy as everyone says…

Sorry for the HUGE first post, but, as mentioned above, i’ve heard so many people recomended it that i want to use it myself “with ease”

Thanks in advance!!

Alfie

Last edited by Alfie (2007-11-06 01:21:50)

Gocom · 2007-11-06 04:25:53

Textile should be used only for articles. What becomes to the design, it should be done with XHTML. As articles and forms are seperated.
Articles are only for content when form are for design.
Yep, Textpattern isn’t out of the box CMS – and it’s good. If it would be, I wouldn’t use it at all. Then I would use MType. Everything in Textpattern can be done, and designed by yourself.
When complex-sites are difficult to handle for Joomla and so-on, Textpattern makes it easy – because you can choose everything by yourself. And without any knowledge of php, because of the huge amount of core-tags and plugins.

Yep, and I understand that many new users that are used to use Joomla or Wordpress, find it difficult to use Textpattern. It’s because Textpattern is quite different kind of CMS, for users that need customized opertunities.

How to add new single pages and easily add items into the menu (in mambo its easy) and link them together.

Well, with tags. Alphabetical Tag Listing

IE. article_custom, related_articles, section_list, category_list and so-on.

Cheers!

Last edited by Gocom (2007-11-06 04:27:58)

hbarrett · 2007-11-06 05:29:13

Alfie -

Hang in there. I was thoroughly confused at first as well. I bought the Textpattern Solutions book and it certainly makes things so much more understandable. But, I had to read the book twice for it to all fall into place – I had never even touched a CMS before so I was very new to dynamic sites. Please be patient with the roughly 4 chapters that take you through building a site for the fictitious band “BuzzBomb” as things are skipped about a bit, but eventually come together, and as they do, I think it will all make sense to you.

Timid&friendly · 2007-11-06 07:27:47

I have been using txp about 6 months now.

I’m a designer not a programmer so has been a slow process for me to learn it. So far I have been able to achieve EVERYTHING EXACTLY as i wanted without concessions! However It is no quick option, that is if you want to hand craft every aspect of a site design and structure.

The reason I choose TXP is because you can literally use your original html-css templates static templates and make them dynamic.

There is no quick and dirty solution, and no easy road… I read the book and it does help a lot, but once again, that just the tip of the iceberg, with what can be achieved.

This community is simply the best. People like Mary and Gocom have been so helpful to me in the past and other like me. If you decide you are in for the long haul then I’m sure you will get there. If you want a quick solution I think you will continue to be disappointed.

ultramega · 2007-11-06 09:31:19

I agree with Timid&friendly. I like the simplicity of the default installation. Over it it’s nice to build design-based sites, and add needed additions only as plugins. I have tried few times to change to Joomla but every time I have came back :) And this forum really is very helpful and kind, it’s always big bonus.

BTW, I haven’t ever tried it but TINY MCE wysiwyg-editor should be available for TXP too. Would propably make easier to insert tables in articles, if that was one of your concern…

Last edited by ultramega (2007-11-06 09:40:34)

Alfie · 2007-11-06 10:32:19

Thanks for all the encouragement! I think what im finding is that some of the websites I build tend to be fairly simple. And dont need anything too special (http://healthcare-toc.com/ for example)<—-uses Mambo. I dont really need a different design for different areas of the site and most are “static” type pages. My main goal is to allow people to A. edit content already there and B. Allow them to add new pages and insert them into the menu. So maybe TXP is a little too involved?

I have started to re-do my layout and use forms for header and footer etc, as previously I just copied my whole layout into the default template and edited everything from one window. Im starting to figure out how easy the Template system and creation of forms etc is now. Seems easy enough way of setting things up.

I think the main obstacle is showing the person/people who i’m building the sites for how to create new pages and add links to them in the menu. Also formatting text and tabled contents using the tag system. I just dont think they will understand and I thats whats holding me back.

One thing I have done (dont hate me) is installed the TinyMCE editor which will help a lot when the client is updating pages but it still doesnt have an easy way to create tables (unlike the TinyMCE in Mambo which has the table icon, this version doesnt?.

Yes it may seem easy to me or you, but to a 45 year old computer illerate receptionist who can only ust about master the concept of MSWord i cant see how they will “figure it out”.

EDIT:

ultramega wrote:

BTW, I haven’t ever tried it but TINY MCE wysiwyg-editor should be available for TXP too. Would propably make easier to insert tables in articles, if that was one of your concern…!

Lol its taken me so long to write this post you have posted while i was writing a reply to the other posts. I have commented above :)

Thanks again :D

Alfie

Last edited by Alfie (2007-11-06 10:40:05)

Timid&friendly · 2007-11-06 12:55:45

Adding menu items is IMHO one of the main weakness of TXP. (along with image management)

As far as i can see the TXP isn’t specifcally designed to accommodate the alteration of your chosen menu system at “client level”. As a builder you will be able to achieve what you want, but a client will have difficulties. The whole menu structure in txp with a standard install doesn’t really aid one in building a logical structured menu. You have to resort to work-arounds using categories or use specifically written plugins. The latter of which i have no experience.

I have heard on the grapewine that v4.1+ will tackle the menu question better, but I’m not sure if that is fact.
I sure there are more experienced users/builders out there know of a good menu solution for you, but it will be a plugin and not standard.

If you have questions about tinyMCE it would be best to post them on that support thread. Iknow that you can add extras to it, but i also saw that it looked pretty involved

jakob · 2007-11-06 13:50:41

It may seem more difficult as you’re changing two ‘paradigms’ at once:

a switch from table-based layout to xhtml/css on the one hand (strictly speaking you can still uses tables for layout if you wish but it makes things more difficult down the line).
a switch from building-blocks-on-a-page cms approach to article-based approach.

In txp the designer designs the page layout and which kind of information should go where. The author need only write content and assign it to a section or category of the website, txp takes care of adding it to the other pages.
Because of the way table-based layouts can stretch across disparate parts of a page, this means adding a new cell on the left necessitates that cells on the other side of the page have to be merged/grouped. The normal way around this is to make a table for the basic layout and nest other tables in those cells for individual finer-grain elements. And once you start breaking down your page into different areas with their own specific content, the step to css-based layout using divs and ul-lists etc. is in principle only a small one.

Check out these two articles by Destry Wion. They’re long but you’ll have a better idea after reading them.

Self-extending menus
txp:section_list and txp:category_list allow you to make a menu that self-extends as you add new categories or sections and allows you to exclude certain categories from appearing on it if you want them elsewhere. there are some other menu plug-ins that extend functionality.
For self-extending sub-menus in sections you can use txp:article_custom to list out all the articles in a section or category and form that lists only txp:permlink and txp:title. A tip for when the title is too long for a menu item is to store the short version for the menu item in a custom_field and to use txp:custom_field instead of txp:title for the menu list.

The mixed section/flyout menu you have on the site you link is more difficult and would probably work best as semi-manual semi-automatic for the flyouts.

Gocom · 2007-11-06 14:44:54

Timid&friendly wrote:

People like Mary and Gocom have been so helpful to me in the past and other like me.

Thank you :)

I have been using txp about 6 months now.

I, myself, have been using Textpattern for about two years now, from the early summer of 2006, when one of my designer-pals build a site with Textpattern, which main-content, updating, code-fixing and owning was my job. It was little, 1 year and 2000 articles game-magazine, when maintaining it my skills improved. And after that interest took me away. I started my own Textpattern-site-building, first I build a blog, which was fair simple – as I was designer and IT-student. Then couple months of that I started coding Textpattern, making my on patches and creating code-snippets and making plugins. Part of those plugins were because of my job – coding and designing websites. So, I have build Textpattern sites for clients for over year now, and basically I would say: Textpattern can do everything. Well, it doesn’t kiss me, bake or chat – maybe my friends and girlfriend are for that :D

Alfie wrote:

A. edit content already there and B. Allow them to add new pages and insert them into the menu. So maybe TXP is a little too involved?

Yep, as jakob said, you will do the design that will completely dynamic. Then users only have to write a article, that is the real content – as the forms are basically for design and static pages. Consider of reading Tag listing

You would find that there is tags like <txp:article /> and <txp:article_custom /> in example. So, user have no need to edit the template and sites structure – everything will be automatic.

Cheers!

Alfie · 2007-11-06 17:35:47

Wow, im REALLY impressed with the huge response. Thanks to everyone who’s replied. Youll be glad to know that im totally getting this now (I THINK!):D :D :D one minute I was stuck and the next it just clicked!!!

First step: Baisically Im at a point where I have a signle page layout which is entirely CSS Driven, I have copied the stylesheet into TXP and the html(xhtml?) into the default template and all is good.

second step: Now where my menu would go, all i need is a line like:

<txp:section_list wraptag=“ul” break=“li” />

and whenever a section is added it will add it to the menu, likewise i guess with articles etc (using the equivilent tags)

For some reason i couldnt understand how when a new page/section gets created how the link apears in the “menu”. Well easily using the above method.

I thought that whenever you created a new section you would have to manually add the link into the layout as per:

If you want more control over the content of the list (to omit certain sections, or use a specific order), the best way is with the <txp:section /> tag (*requires Textpattern 4.0.2+*):
<ul>
    <txp:section wraptag="li" link=1 title=1 name="about" />
    <txp:section wraptag="li" link=1 title=1 name="articles" />
    <txp:section wraptag="li" link=1 title=1 name="news" />
    <txp:section wraptag="li" link=1 title=1 name="contact" />
    </ul>

I didnt read it properly and thats what i thought was needed for every page!

So thats the layout thing sorted :D

Ive also (as you may have noticed) been looking into the “textile tags”. The formatting of text seems a breaze, although i’m still not convinced that tables are going to be easy when trying to explain it to my clients.

simple tables i’ll probably be able to explain

like this

table{border:5px solid black}.
{background:#ddd}.|simple tables i'll |probably be able to explain|

but table like this

|_. attribute list |
|<. align left |
|>. align right|
|=. center |
|<>. justify |
|^. valign top |
|~. bottom |

will scare the crap out of them

Anyway i think im starting to see the light :D which is great. I will be uploading my site so far when ive sorted my Clean URL’s out!

Thanks for all the help so far.. keep it comin’

Regards

Alfie

Last edited by Alfie (2007-11-06 17:36:41)

els · 2007-11-06 21:55:27

You could perhaps also create the tables in the article form, and have the client enter the content in custom fields. Something like this:

On the page:

<table class="whatever"><txp:article form="table_form" /></table>

Form ‘table_form’:

<tr>
   <td><txp:custom_field name="column1" /></td>
   <td>txp:custom_field name="column2" /></td>
   ...etcetera...
</tr>

You can add classes in the form wherever you need them.

Alfie · 2007-11-08 17:12:06

Thanks again for all your comments, im taking them on board and working on the site at the moment!

I have just uploaded the site to the internet and wondered if i could get your opinions and possably a few pointers.

http://www.alexblundell.co.uk/TXP/

Thanks again

Alfie

Textpattern CMS

Textpattern CMS support forum

#1 2007-11-06 01:12:13

Please help me!! I Cannot work TXP out...and i want to!

#2 2007-11-06 04:25:53

Re: Please help me!! I Cannot work TXP out...and i want to!

#3 2007-11-06 05:29:13

Re: Please help me!! I Cannot work TXP out...and i want to!

#4 2007-11-06 07:27:47

Re: Please help me!! I Cannot work TXP out...and i want to!

#5 2007-11-06 09:31:19

Re: Please help me!! I Cannot work TXP out...and i want to!

#6 2007-11-06 10:32:19

Re: Please help me!! I Cannot work TXP out...and i want to!

#7 2007-11-06 12:55:45

Re: Please help me!! I Cannot work TXP out...and i want to!

#8 2007-11-06 13:50:41

Re: Please help me!! I Cannot work TXP out...and i want to!

#9 2007-11-06 14:44:54

Re: Please help me!! I Cannot work TXP out...and i want to!

#10 2007-11-06 17:35:47

Re: Please help me!! I Cannot work TXP out...and i want to!

#11 2007-11-06 21:55:27

Re: Please help me!! I Cannot work TXP out...and i want to!

#12 2007-11-08 17:12:06

Re: Please help me!! I Cannot work TXP out...and i want to!

Board footer