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Tabless in future
The developper have in project to rewrite the admin html without table?
I think thet’s an important step to next future release of Textpattern.
Does someone think about doing it?
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Re: Tabless in future
I think it’s in the pipe for the next major release (dubbed Crockery) as a first move to the admin redesign.
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#3 2007-07-31 14:57:04
- Mary
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- Registered: 2004-06-27
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Re: Tabless in future
Not as important as other things, but yes, it is planned.
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Re: Tabless in future
hum…. sorry Mary (also for my english) but i can’t agree with you. I know that my opinion is not the more important, but today, i think that a tabless code and a semantic code are a lot important for a good cms.
Beyond all is important write a code that was accessible.
There are some plugin that was mede using a table function included in the cms. If you modified the code, this plugin will not work more. Therefore it would be better to modernize the code like first operation.
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#5 2007-09-02 15:24:49
- guiguibonbon
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- Registered: 2006-02-20
- Posts: 296
Re: Tabless in future
I would tend to agree with Marco. The problem is it’s so easy to delay this forever, while it would take a few hours to a single person to sort this once and for all. The added benefit would be that the code behind the txp admin would be many times easier to read.
Here’s a suggestion : if I make static pages and the css, host it on google code and let people in to improve it, would the devs implement it in 4.0.x once it’s finished ?
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#6 2007-09-03 12:49:33
- guiguibonbon
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- Registered: 2006-02-20
- Posts: 296
Re: Tabless in future
Mmmmh. Tell me, when yet another negative answer by a dev is now being delete here, is it because you’re re-considering the answer, or because you’re trying to avoid a debate?
The rule of silence.
I’m coming to the conclusion that Textpattern can not be used as a professional tool, because we have no insight at how it will evolve. Damn shame.
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Re: Tabless in future
Quite simple really. After posting here, I saw that you responded in the same way in some of the other similar topics. There’s no point in repeating myself.
Your conclusion amazes me. It’s already been said in this topic that the requested admin redesign is not going to happen in 4.0.x, but in the 4.1 series.
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#8 2007-09-03 13:29:57
- guiguibonbon
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- Registered: 2006-02-20
- Posts: 296
Re: Tabless in future
Ok. Maybe a summary of all those discussions might explain my conclusion :
- a reasonable feature or bug fix is being asked, help is being offered
- no, won’t be done. Maybe in crockery, but not a priority. OR : silence
- oh, and when will crockery come up ?
- silence
Repeat that tenfold.
And from what I’m seeing here, feature requests are no longer being treated individually. No to one request means no to all requests. Maybe you should close this forum at once.
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Re: Tabless in future
Um… in 4.0.5 all tags that generate lists got a sort attribute, the ‘hide’ tag was added and a truckload of bugs were fixed (many pointed out by users, but also many found by internal code review). In 4.0.6, yet again a bunch of bugs will be fixed and yes, even a reasonable, asked for feature was added.
If there are still bugs (real bugs, not missing features) present in TXP 4.0.x that can be fixed while staying backwards compatible, please point them out. I don’t recall not fixing such bugs.
Changing the admin design (removing the unneeded tables) would no doubt break a bunch of plugins. That’s not something that should happen in a stable series. It kept people from upgrading to 4.0.4 or later despite the security fixes.
As for crockery, I could give you an optimistic date, but no hard guarantees that we can release at that date.
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Re: Tabless in future
Heh,
And a new tag of 4.0.5, <txp:article_url_title /> have been very handy, in many cases.
Afterall my dier guiguibonbon, chill out little. Don’t worry so much, and don’t do those conclusion, which are quite a sceptics. In my opinion Textpattern is great, userfriendly, free and owns the greatest community in the world.
Cheers!
Last edited by Gocom (2007-09-03 14:19:15)
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#11 2007-09-03 14:40:49
- guiguibonbon
- Member
- Registered: 2006-02-20
- Posts: 296
Re: Tabless in future
Ruud, I know how the official story goes. But I also know this : by the time all the features promised for 4.1 will be out, tested and released, a few years will have passed.
I’m also pretty much convinced that during the testing of release candidates, which will take ages considering all the changes that will have to be tested at once, further improvement of 4.0.x will be halted. Plugin devs will not know what to develop for any more. It’s going to be hell.
So here’s what I would do : keep the current state of crockery aside; and launch a 4.1 release asap that gradually builds up from 4.0.6 towards what you had in mind for crockery. Release early, release often. My guess is this : based on user response, the final result will be massively different from what crockery is now. Users will also be able to follow on the upgrades.
Basically, aim all the ambitions you had for crockery towards 4.2.
Oh, and I would definitively start by taking away all those tables, otherwise there would be no use for anyone to start developing admin-side plugins.
Last edited by guiguibonbon (2007-09-03 14:51:19)
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#12 2007-09-03 14:47:47
- guiguibonbon
- Member
- Registered: 2006-02-20
- Posts: 296
Re: Tabless in future
Gocom : when you’re simply building a little website, yes, textpattern is great. But I was just in the process of building a social network on top of textpattern. Which worked brilliantly for the most part, that is until I came across little inconsistencies in txp that devs don’t want to fix, therefore obliging me to split up from the development of txp. Also, It’s genuinely risky to use any plugin on a website that you’d like to update regularly, because you have no guarantee whatsoever that these plugins will be updated for the next major release.
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Re: Tabless in future
guiguibonbon, so why you’re complaining so much? If Textpattern isn’t good enough, I can always stop using it and starting use some another CMS, that you prefer to be so top & professional. Afterall Textpattern is free, and Devs are just humans as like everyone else are.
And are this re-design your the biggest inconsistency? If you want to fix that, do it – for yourself. If you don’t like Textpattern, it’s up to you. And what becomes plugins, if they broke, it’s buu buu, but who said so will happen? And plugins aren’t problem of devs. And textpattern cannot consist all of the functions that plugins offer – we all can know that. Or who will update that mass of code, if it’s released alongside?
And did you notice: “Textpattern is a flexible, elegant and easy-to-use content management system. Textpattern is both free and open source.”
Cheers!
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Re: Tabless in future
ruud wrote:
As for crockery, I could give you an optimistic date, but no hard guarantees that we can release at that date.
just out of curiousity (as the answer obviously will vary) what would you say would be an optimistic date for 4.1?
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#15 2007-09-03 19:31:13
- guiguibonbon
- Member
- Registered: 2006-02-20
- Posts: 296
Re: Tabless in future
Erm, Gocom, you seem to understand that I’m complaining, that I don’t like textpattern, that I have bad feelings about the devs. Well, I’m not. I’m (a) seriously worried, (b) kind of irritated by “the rule of silence”.
If I didn’t like textpattern, I wouldn’t be here spending my day trying to make a point. It’s not like this is my favourite way to pass time.
I also believe the developers want textpattern to be professional as hard as I do — except our vision of how that can be achieved seems to differ. Which I believe is good — dialogue is what keeps the world going round, feedback is what keeps software going forward.
Note : You seem to have missed this, amongst others.
Edit : regarding plugins, I’m not saying they should be added to the core. I’m saying that since we have no 4.1 to start testing plugins on, we have no way to tell if they’ll even be translatable to 4.1.
Last edited by guiguibonbon (2007-09-03 19:51:24)
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